Preamp Comp: My Peavey 5150 Vs Axe Fx II 6505 Model! (Prepare to be blown away!)

Which Clip Is the Real Amp?

  • Clip 1

    Votes: 29 46.0%
  • Clip 2

    Votes: 34 54.0%

  • Total voters
    63
Yeah, clip 2 is the real deal, and its the cab that makes the difference, and if anyone can figure out how to get that "real cab sound" its Cliff. +1

I think the main problem is that speaker IRs only translate the change in tone and not the dynamics of the speaker and how it responds to transients. Once this gets solved we will be 99% to the real thing in my opinion.
 
I think the main problem is that speaker IRs only translate the change in tone and not the dynamics of the speaker and how it responds to transients. Once this gets solved we will be 99% to the real thing in my opinion.
I'd say it depends! If you want a cab in the room sound, I agree. But for frfr systems, IR does a great job. If you would mike lets say a Marshall Plexi with a 4X12 cab loaded with Celestion Greenbacks and capture the sound of this cab with a SM57 going on a mixing desk and you would listen to the result through studio monitors, it would definitly sound different than the raw amp and cab sound in the room. Now, if you would choose a Plexi amp in the axe 2, with one of the cabs IR with greenbacks, using a SM57, going direct to the desk and then, to the same monitor, my guess is, eith some eq, you'd get so close to the first set up, no one could tell the difference. And that's the point! All the tones we love and wish to recreate in our living room were recorded tones, polished and sometimes heavily process! Even a simple basic amp and cab set-up like ACDC sounds different going through some mics and mixing desk and layering at the mix! And if you're after that in the room sound, use a real cab and poweramp. But you won't get a lot of tonal versality, because the cab sims in the axe or third party affect the tone a lot! But if Cliff can make those cabs sound even better, I'd be a fool not to be happy about it!!
 
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i think 2 is the real thing but its more like flipping a coin rather than really hearing the difference ;)

the "problem" with the cab sims is its just a capture of one mic position .. if you A/B some real mic recording against an recording with an IR (recorded with the real mic) you will notive practically no difference.

the only problem is finding the right IR for the sound you are chasing after. in the axe II there are some great IRs but many of the v30 irs just sound too metal style in my opinion ;)

the holy grail is to model the box/speakers independently from the mic position and model the impact of the mic position afterwards. maybe just the interpolating between some IRs (e.g.center, middle, edge) can do the trick but maybe not ;) so there is still enough room for things in the Axe III :p
 
The results are ridicolous... I mean, there is a slight difference, but come on...who will notice that?
Amazing comparison!
 
Now the next step would be to make a IR from this setup and test the AXE-FX + IR vs the 5150 + Mic vs 5150 + IR.
All in a blind test for us.
That should be fun! :)
 
Yeah, clip 2 is the real deal, and its the cab that makes the difference, and if anyone can figure out how to get that "real cab sound" its Cliff. +1

Both clips are through a "real cab". Reread the OP.

IRs are perfectly capable of recreating a real cab. The amount of distortion introduced by a speaker is miniscule in comparison and dwarfed by that created by the amp.

It's just that most IRs are nearfield and people aren't familiar with the sound of nearfield monitoring. You will never get "in the room sound" with nearfield IRs.

I've done extensive research into speakers and there is nothing to be gained by using "dynamic IRs" (i.e. Volterra kernels) vs. normal IRs and speaker distortion modeling. It just uses a lot of horsepower with no tangible improvement.
 
I think the IR's are astonishingly accurate. As Cliff just pointed out these clips were both recorded through the 5150's power section and a real mic'd cab. I noticed one had a tad more gain and was a bit brighter. Other than that IMO they are identical. They both had that awesomely tight yet sponger low end.

I NEED THIS PRESET!!! Can you please share it OP?!? This is the low end bounce I've been searching for for this recording I've been doing.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
Both clips are through a "real cab". Reread the OP.

IRs are perfectly capable of recreating a real cab. The amount of distortion introduced by a speaker is miniscule in comparison and dwarfed by that created by the amp.

It's just that most IRs are nearfield and people aren't familiar with the sound of nearfield monitoring. You will never get "in the room sound" with nearfield IRs.

I've done extensive research into speakers and there is nothing to be gained by using "dynamic IRs" (i.e. Volterra kernels) vs. normal IRs and speaker distortion modeling. It just uses a lot of horsepower with no tangible improvement.


I'm aware that both clips are from a "real cab" thats why in my opinion they sound so close.

I would bet that a similar test made from a real cab compared to the IR wouldnt yield such similar results. At least from my personal experience and from other comparisons I've heard.

I believe in you Cliff about your research maybe dynamic IRs arent the solution either. But for me there is a time based response that IRs arent able to match up.

From my studio experience I'm very much used to listen not only to amps in the room but also from the studio monitors in the control room playing the sound of a miced cab. And the sound is different from IRs. Not from an EQ point of view but from the dynamics of the signal. There is definetly a different feeling.
 
Hi guys, glad you are enjoying this. I really do wish i'd jacked up the input trim a bit, as since then its been even better. There will be more clips coming by the weekend to make this a fairer test.

@ Shotgunn - There's not a great deal to share really mate. Its the 6505 amp model, power amp sims all off and settings as per the ones on my 5150 pic here. Be sure to raise the input trim to at least 3, although 4 or 5 was very juicy. There is a bit of magic on both clips, to the tune of a multiband compressor working away to tame out the low mids - they would have just been distracting for the listening experience. If you do really want it though, i will attach :D

Both tones leave a lot to be desired, since there is no eq going on and the mic literally was just thrown in front of the speaker about an inch away from the grille cloth.

I am still very reserved about using impulses in any cab recording situation. I did extensive tests and wasnt pleased with how they responded to eq amongst other things. I will persevere with technology though, as mic'ing up pumped tube amps is something I could do without!

5150%20small.jpg
 
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When do we get the answer? I voted that #2 is the real amp, but again so dang close that it could have just been an EQ or gain thing causing the difference.... Since I plan on using my AXE is mostly a pre-amp, I'm very stoked to hear how close it sounds when using a real power amp and cab.
 
It would be great to see that MBC preset. Was it before or after the amp?


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
Evening chaps. For those who didnt already know, #2 is the real 5150. Im quite surprised in hindsight looking at the votes - a clear 50/50 split. I thought the undergaining that happend was going to screw the whole test over in favour of the real clip.

With regards to the multi band compressor, this was the c4 waves plugin and wouldnt be needed at all had I actually spent a bit longer on getting a quality mic placement :) (fwiw, it was a fast attack and release (10-25ms) beating away at that low mid region around 280hz with a fairly wide q. That is the main problem area with heavy guitars & cab flub as well as subs less than 80hz and fuzz > 14khz.
 
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Both clips are through a "real cab". Reread the OP.

IRs are perfectly capable of recreating a real cab. The amount of distortion introduced by a speaker is miniscule in comparison and dwarfed by that created by the amp.

It's just that most IRs are nearfield and people aren't familiar with the sound of nearfield monitoring. You will never get "in the room sound" with nearfield IRs.

I've done extensive research into speakers and there is nothing to be gained by using "dynamic IRs" (i.e. Volterra kernels) vs. normal IRs and speaker distortion modeling. It just uses a lot of horsepower with no tangible improvement.

what about captering the same cab with different mic positions and add the possibilty to morph between them?
 
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