• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Pre-Amp AND Pre+Power-Amp-Bock in parallel?

glombi

Inspired
Hi,

I'm new to FAS and this forum. But I was considering to set up a simple AX8-rig for the following purposes:

  • home and practice use mainly with headphones and MAC-recording (digital out to interface, including power-amp and cab-sim)
  • rehearsals and gigs with my tube power-amp (1/4" out, pre-amp only, w/o power-amp and cab-sim) and PA (XLR, with power-amp and cab-sim) in parallel. (Yes, I would like to have some tubes involved in my Live sound, and no miced signal)
Yesterday I flipped through the manual and learned that the power-amp-block can only be turned on/off by a global parameter. So it does not seem possible to have one output with pre-amp only and the other with the full amp-block in parallel? Could anybody please confirm? Or does anybody maybe have a workaround/solution for this?

Additionaly I would like to get confirmation, that it's not possible to place modulating effects in between pre- and power-amp, but that these have to go post the amp-block? So I would not be able to recreate my physical rig?

Both issues would make the AX8 the not so perfect solution for me, saving me some money ;-)

Thanks and regards,
glombi
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
No you can not run the preamp and power amp in parallel. (Can't do it on axe fx either) there are tons of guys who use can sims to foh and use a real cab ect on stage. I am sure they will all chime in soon on how exactly that works
 

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
Page 46 in the manual - turn the Supply Sag parameter down in your amp block to defeat power amp modeling in just that preset. However, since there is only one amp per preset, that will disable power amp modeling entirely for that preset and you'll only have a preamp.

On the Axe FX II, the method would be to add two identical amp blocks in parallel, with Supply Sag turned off on one of them.
 

glombi

Inspired
Thank you both for the quick respones :)

Too bad the AX doesn't seem to be usable in the way I intented to... :cool:
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
Thank you both for the quick respones :)

Too bad the AX doesn't seem to be usable in the way I intented to... :cool:
If you want to sell it let me know!

AS I said above lots of guys do use their ii split to foh and a cab (they do not disable the poweramp section. It is not going to ruin your amp.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Which tube power amp do you use?

Because combining Power Amp Modeling in the Axe-Fx with a tube power amps does not have to be a bad thing.
 

glombi

Inspired
@brokenvail

Sorry, don't even have i yet. But I don't want to buy it (if finally available in europe), only to return/resell ist, due to issues that can be clarified up front...

@yek

I intended to use the power amp section of my Koch Multitone II 50 W Combo only, using the FX return.
 

lwknives

Experienced
Is there a reason you want tubes on stage? I don't think you will find any evidence that tubes sound or feel better!
Having a cab will definitely sound different but I would suggest a solid state power amp. That way you can use power amp modeling for both stage and FOH.
One of the best things about the ax8 is that you get to hear exactly what the audience hears! If you run into a tube amp and cab you disable one of the biggest reasons to go with the axe!
I don't understand all the people buying a unit that can get pretty much any recorded guitar sound and run it through a cab that sounds completely different depending on where you stand! The audience isn't going to be able to enjoy your cab at all! Why not just stay with your normal setup?
Of course this is just my opinion and holds pretty much no value to people who disagree!!!;)
 

glombi

Inspired
Is there a reason you want tubes on stage? I don't think you will find any evidence that tubes sound or feel better!

I appreciate your open words. I also understand that this is the way the device is intended to be used. But I'm maybe a little bit old fashioned. I'm not so keen to be on stage (even if this is not to often) with a "HiFi system". I can't imagine that a miced sound on stage is the same as a real amp and cab sound. At my last gig there was one guitar player with a BOSS GT and FRFR cab. He sounded not bad but "flat". Nobody really listened. Knowing to have the amp as a fallback solution is also nice.
 

Matt_B_77

Power User
I appreciate your open words. I also understand that this is the way the device is intended to be used. But I'm maybe a little bit old fashioned. I'm not so keen to be on stage (even if this is not to often) with a "HiFi system". I can't imagine that a miced sound on stage is the same as a real amp and cab sound. At my last gig there was one guitar player with a BOSS GT and FRFR cab. He sounded not bad but "flat". Nobody really listened. Knowing to have the amp as a fallback solution is also nice.
Yeah, if you're old fashioned that amp modeling is probably not for you. As for basing your opinion about FRFR on the Boss GT, yeah it's not going to sound that good.
 
Last edited:

glombi

Inspired
Yeah, if you're old fashioned that amp modeling is probably not for you. As for basing your opinion about FRFR on the Boss GT, yeah it's not going to sound that.

Sorry, I didn't want to put BOSS GT and Axe system in the same league, I'm pretty sure that the AX8 will sound ways better...

Though I might be old fashioned, I still like the idea of having all effects at hand, if required, even without cluttering my board all the time. Also having AD/DA conversion only once, would be another advantage. As the AX8 doesn't seem to be available in Europe soon, I will have enough time to consider the best solution for me...
 

chris

Legend!
I can't imagine that a miced sound on stage is the same as a real amp and cab sound.
if you approach things with this thought, then it will indeed never happen.

At my last gig there was one guitar player with a BOSS GT and FRFR cab. He sounded not bad but "flat". Nobody really listened.
a BOSS GT sounds flat. an AX8 does not. strange that you want the absolute best in modeling, only to shun the fact that it might actually sound good. oh well :)
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
You are like lots of other guys on here the dipped their toes in the water not wanting to let their tubes go. There are even pros who don't want to let go of their cabs for listening on stage. Imo something like the matrix power amps are the perfect fit for a guy like you. They sound very tube like and you would have a real cab on stage. Fryette makes a tube amp that is supposed to be reference level flat so you get a the tube stuff you like without to much extra color from the amp
 
Top Bottom