Powered version

Yeah, I'm 'minus one' on this wish. I'm currently running a 700w Crown amp that weighs in at 1.5 crap-tons. I give it the stink-eye a good bit of the time.

I am unconvinced with class-d on this kind of application. There's no way to appeal to a large group of Fractal users with a power section that ain't Lab-Grupen, Macintosh or some other Maserati SS amp.

Buy a power amp.
 
„Move on“ is not a pro, con or discussion 😉
Like i said - offering more options is a good thing, i don‘t see any problems with optional configurations.
Making a fuller product and earning more money cant be bad.
 
How do you figure this would save you money?
@MrPond ^this..

Hey!

Currently, i‘m a FM3 user but i can see me switching to the III when my band is fully digital and we can store everything in one rack.

What i would really love to see is a powered version of the Axe Fx (like the powered Kemper rack). Saving space and a bit money would be a good thing, also minimizing cables, external signal routings and devices. There could be an option to configure which out block is going internally to the real power amp for still being flexible. There are many people who are enjoing real cabs…

Maybe partnering with matrix to have something integrated would be the best? Or something own?

So long,
Niklas

lets rationalize & evaluate this...

1. Absolutely 100% of current customers have an existing solution and customers who are not existing Fractal customers would not NOT purchase based upon the lack of a power amp, so Fractal cannot increase total customers... Among that 100%, (solely a guess) I suspect its at least 80% powered FRFR.. then (say) 15% quality rack amps (Matrix et al) so its ~ 5% users, who like me, use some other amp plus a FRFR/guitar cab who could be the customers.
2. Summary of above is that it is a small served available market and as every powered axe is a lost unpowered axe sale, its inherently cannibalizing their own sales...not a profitable business model for any company.
3. For any new product, a company evaluates how, where, IF and SHOULD they can or do add value from a technical/cost/profit perspective.. and personally, without any in depth personal knowledge of the team or the business, I would suspect this is outside of their direct technical expertise (core competency) and simply very much a "me too" bolt-on functionality that adds little value (to Fractal)

Could they do a powered ax3?.. sure, i guess they could
Should they?.. I fail to see any sense in this at all from either a marketing, technical or financial perspective.
Will they?.. I seriously doubt it..
 
Like i said - offering more options is a good thing, i don‘t see any problems with optional configurations.
Making a fuller product and earning more money cant be bad.

Here’s how Fractal looks at the current product line

"The entire product line was conceived years ago. The goal was to maximize the number of parts shared between products. The footswitch PC boards do three switches each. An FM3 has one board. An FC6 has two. An FM9 has three and an FC12 has four. All products use the same LCDs, encoders, side plates, etc., etc. This reduces cost and repair inventory. The FC6 and the FM3 are basically the same enclosure. The FC12 and FM9 are basically the same enclosure. This isn't a huge market. Margins are thin so you have to think of ways to minimize development and product costs. Parts bin methodology is the route we took on this generation." [3]

Given that’s their business strategy for the current product line, how would you propose that they add a power-amp equipped version and maintain their margins? Because they’re going to want to reuse the existing panels, which ports on the back of the unit would you be willing to sacrifice? They wouldn’t have an FX3 with a power amp, they’d have part of a FX3 with a power-amp and would have to maintain another firmware revision, further diluting their focus and efforts.

IF they could drop-in a power-amp without needing extra power or ports or new connectors, then, yeah, they’d probably go for it, but they can’t, the current board and panel won’t support it. The Turbo is an example of being able to drop something in without any other necessary changes, except for the firmware sensing and recognizing the different chip, but that was handled nicely by the Ares architecture underneath it all, they planned for that possibility.

It’s fun to play “Gee, it’d be nice” but it’s important to understand the reality of their business world. They can’t afford to make frivolous product decisions, instead they plan years ahead, design the products, line up their suppliers and get the contracts in place, and then follow the plan. Gee, it’d be nice if they didn’t do that … but then they might not be in business if that’s how they ran the company.
 
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@MrPond ^this..
Could they do a powered ax3?.. sure, i guess they could
Should they?.. I fail to see any sense in this at all from either a marketing, technical or financial perspective.
Will they?.. I seriously doubt it..

Then replace my comment about the axe 3 with "axe 4" :p
I officially wish the the next product family will have more integrated options, such as a power amp.
People who want one unit to rule them all: Buy this, all others: Leave this option behind.
I don't see a problem with this.
 
Then replace my comment about the axe 3 with "axe 4" :p
I officially wish the the next product family will have more integrated options, such as a power amp.
People who want one unit to rule them all: Buy this, all others: Leave this option behind.
I don't see a problem with this.
The point that still stands from the get go is you won't be "saving money" with the likely $1k+ power amp that would be bundled in nor saving any space with a current 3u rack that will need to likely get expanded to accommodate said $1k+ power amp.


Edited for I get having wishes for things. Certainly. So good luck in this quest regardless.
 
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Then replace my comment about the axe 3 with "axe 4" :p
I officially wish the the next product family will have more integrated options, such as a power amp.
People who want one unit to rule them all: Buy this, all others: Leave this option behind.
I don't see a problem with this.
Let me guess, you haven’t spent a lot of time working in manufacturing, especially in the planning or purchasing departments, especially in the last ten years.
 
Let me guess, you haven’t spent a lot of time working in manufacturing, especially in the planning or purchasing departments, especially in the last ten years.

Do i have to be a manufacturer to make a wish?
Like, I need to know how a car is build to make a wish on things I want to have changed on it? Interesting.
 
i don‘t see any problems with optional configurations.
Making a fuller product and earning more money cant be bad.
Do i have to be a manufacturer to make a wish?
no you don’t, but a wish doesn’t mean it’s feasible to create. you don’t “just add a power amp” to a product that easily. and why would it earn more money? it costs money to make it and redesign the product, so they’d have to outsell that cost. then they’d have inventory of a power amp version sitting around when people don’t buy it because it’s more expensive and they already have powered solutions.

what you state is not that simple. i can’t see FAS adding a 100W power amp - which is very underpowered for majority of users who’d want this most likely - and adding more connections to the rear panel and board when it’s much easier to plug a cable from Out 2 to a power amp pedal like you mentioned.

the way it is now, people can choose exactly what power amp they want and add it.

it’s a cool wish, been there from the beginning of the Axe-Fx.
 
no you don’t, but a wish doesn’t mean it’s feasible to create. you don’t “just add a power amp” to a product that easily.

what you state is not that simple. i can’t see FAS adding a 100W power amp and adding more connections to the rear panel and board when it’s much easier to plug a cable from Out 2 to a power amp pedal like you mentioned.

Where did I say that the task would be easy? I said "What i would really love to see".

I don't understand what we are really discussing about .. I made a wish for a powered version - I understand that some of you heavely dislike this approach - I disagree and competitors prove me that many users prefer an all-in-one unit (the powered versions of Kemper are ranked many many steps (#1) before the usual (unpowered) ones in sales at Thomann, just as an example to prove my point.

I don't want to make such a big deal out of it ;) No hard feelings.
I made my wish, I hope I get heard ✌️That's it✌️
 
competitors prove me that many users prefer an all-in-one unit (the powered versions of Kemper are ranked many many steps (#1) before the usual (unpowered) ones in sales at Thomann, just as an example to prove my point.
the Kemper is a completely different product. it’s sold as a direct Amp replacement that uses Profiling and has some built-in effects. for someone wanting a direct amp replacement, it makes more sense to have a power amp built in. i doubt people buy the kemper just to use its effects and nothing else.

the Axe is not necessarily a direct amp replacement. it’s a modeler with a wide range of effects. some use it with a power amp with real cabs, majority use it full range to the PA or with powered speakers. many use it just for its effects with real amps. a power amp built-in would not help majority of the use cases.

two completely different things. just because a similar product sells more with a power amp doesn’t mean the axe would.
 
I don't see any benefit to Fractal having a built in poweramp module in their units when you can pair any poweramp you like with them.

What I would like to see is Fractal offering a list of "known good" (in their experience) poweramps at different price points so people can buy something that is guaranteed to work well. Same for FRFR setups.
 
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