Power Amp - Tube or Solid State?

A power amp is a power amp. Having tubes should not change the tone. No one would pass a blind test. 🤷‍♂️

I used to think this too, but the more testing I did, the more I learned and understood, and my thinking ended up changing pretty drastically.

Power sections are extremely important and influential to the sound of a guitar. Tubes, transformers, damping, negative feedback… all of it matters and all of it impacts tone. If it didn’t, there would be no need for more than one type of power tube, transformer, or power amp circuit for that matter to exist. I think the thing guitar players lose sight of here is that they think because poweramps have minimal parameters for adjustment, there must be minimal aspects of the tone they impact. This is inaccurate.

Power sections dictate more than just EQ. Transients, compression, bloom, overdrive characteristics, all of this is determined by the power section.

Even solid state amps impact tone between different models in ways besides slightly different EQ signatures. Power available for sustained wattage output vs transient bursts, etc. And that’s not even to mention the oddball solid state amps like some Peavey amps that have solid state power sections with transformers.

All of it matters.


Personally my favorite tube poweramp is the VHT (now Fryette) 2/90/2, and my favorite solid state poweramp is the Matrix GT1000FX 2U. They’re the biggest, boldest, clearest sounding poweramps I’ve ever tried. I’ve owned the VHT for close to 15 years and it’s always performed flawlessly, and I’ve owned the Matrix for a year or so and I’m totally satisfied with it. They sound and feel slightly different from each other but they’re both absolutely excellent and I could be totally happy with either one, especially with a modeler like the Axe-FX that is so good at emulating various power section types.
 
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I used to think this too, but the more testing I did, the more I learned and understood, and my thinking ended up changing pretty drastically.

Power sections are extremely important and influential to the sound of a guitar. Tubes, transformers, damping, negative feedback… all of it matters and all of it impacts tone. If it didn’t, there would be no need for more than one type of power tube, transformer, or power amp circuit for that matter to exist. I think the thing guitar players lose sight of here is that they think because poweramps have minimal parameters for adjustment, there must be minimal aspects of the tone they impact. This is inaccurate.

Power sections also impact more than just EQ. Transients, compression, bloom, overdrive characteristics, all of this is determined by the power section.

Even solid state amps impact tone between different models in ways besides slightly different EQ signatures. Power available for sustained wattage output vs transient bursts, etc. And that’s not even to mention the oddball solid state amps like some Peavey amps that have solid state power sections with transformers.

All of it matters.


Personally my favorite tube poweramp is the VHT (now Fryette) 2/90/2, and my favorite solid state poweramp is the Matrix GT1000FX 2U. They’re the biggest, boldest, clearest sounding poweramps I’ve ever tried. I’ve owned the VHT for close to 15 years and it’s always performed flawlessly, and I’ve owned the Matirx for a year or so and I’m totally satisfied with it. They sound and feel slightly different from each other but they’re both absolutely excellent and I could be totally happy with either one, especially with a modeler like the Axe-FX that is so good at emulating various power section types.

Great post! I am fairly convinced you are correct. In my experience, "it all matters." Pretty sure this is why
the number one question on these forums that we see repeated again and again is, "How should I power/monitor
my Fractal unit?"
 
Poweramps will make a difference and they will sound different. In a mix, a recording, a show - it would hard to figure out. The user can tell just like someone can tell how different models/amps feel. There is no "one" right way. Use what feels best I say...
 
I have a Fryette tube and and a Matrix SS. I can definitely tell the difference, and those are two "transparent" power amps. I have several other power amps that are modeled after vintage style PA sections. Each has their own, very distinct, sound.
 
So, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring on this topic as I have now experienced 4 weeks of trial between Tube / SS Power amps. And, to be clear, the intention of this post is to see if maybe I'm doing something wrong or could be doing something better on my grid or power amp setting blocks. Not to declare a winner (which is impossible for everyone to agree).

I have to say that I hear a SIGNIFICANT difference between tube and SS. And this is in the mix during rehearsal at practice volumes. And I should probably rather say that I FEEL a significant difference. There is a "thump" that seems to be missing with SS. And the "break-up" that we look for (especially in metal) as we increase the volume is missing to me. So far, I have tried a Mesa Boogie 50/50, Matrix GT1000FX and Duncan PS700. The 50/50 even had, by my estimation some older 6L6s in them that probably needed replacement. I tried turning on/off the power amp emulation accordingly as well. I could not find a setting with the SS power amps that competed with the tube power amp with regards to sheer power and thump.

I also used the stock presets as well as some of the community presets and the "gift of sound" presets without messing with them. So this was my very unscientific - but real-world - litmus test between the two techs. My question is: Are there any key settings - probably in the power section of the amp block that I should check? That maybe I'm missing that would give me that "thump" and point of break-up as I increase the volume?
 
I hope I understand your problem correctly (My native language is not english ;D ).

- If you have power amp (Tube or SS) and there is effect return input that maybe mutes the pre-amp signal and less coloring sound with
things you mentioned).


There is no right or wrong way also in this question or may I say that correct one is that rig that player itself like most.
I have tube amp and now I use Harley Benton GPA-400 (cheap power, no tubes).
Earlier I tried Axe 2 and Axe 3 through my tube amp Laney L5studio and sound from Axe was not as good like Axe only to my audio interface - monitors.
  • When I tried to tube amp front then needed tweak sound using bass, middle, treble etc. but still not sound good enough and same than Axe alone.
  • When I tried to tube amp effect return (it mutes the pre-amp signal) sound was better but not as good than Axe itself.

The problem there was, that tube amp Laney L5studio colors sound itself too much and difficult to find proper adjustments (neutral ones).
But this problem can be also for some players good thing, be cause main thing is that player itself like sound (even it´s not same as Axe alone).

For me main thing is, that I make sound using Axe (not using any power amps). But there was one thing that I wanted -> I have 212 (2x12") cab and wanted use that to get "more sound" and more sound using power amp (without coloring sound).

So what I did:

- My LaneyLT212 cab is now also stereo (it was only mono), Left input is Mono/Left and Right input R (M/L - R), so I can use it with my tube amp or Axe 3 -> HB GPA-400 -> Laney LT212.

Main thing is that power amp don´t give color for Axes presets and it is neutral for sound and also that 212 cab give nice "depth" to sound but not color it, also now some effects comes nicely through 212 cab stereo (ex. delay etc.).

I love this rig Axe III -> HB GPA-400 -> 212 cab stereo (bonus is that same time I can use both XLR and 1/4 Connection 1 outputs , one to audio interface and one to HB GPA-400 so if I wont sound comes from cab and monitors.
 
So, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring on this topic as I have now experienced 4 weeks of trial between Tube / SS Power amps. And, to be clear, the intention of this post is to see if maybe I'm doing something wrong or could be doing something better on my grid or power amp setting blocks. Not to declare a winner (which is impossible for everyone to agree).

I have to say that I hear a SIGNIFICANT difference between tube and SS. And this is in the mix during rehearsal at practice volumes. And I should probably rather say that I FEEL a significant difference. There is a "thump" that seems to be missing with SS. And the "break-up" that we look for (especially in metal) as we increase the volume is missing to me. So far, I have tried a Mesa Boogie 50/50, Matrix GT1000FX and Duncan PS700. The 50/50 even had, by my estimation some older 6L6s in them that probably needed replacement. I tried turning on/off the power amp emulation accordingly as well. I could not find a setting with the SS power amps that competed with the tube power amp with regards to sheer power and thump.

I also used the stock presets as well as some of the community presets and the "gift of sound" presets without messing with them. So this was my very unscientific - but real-world - litmus test between the two techs. My question is: Are there any key settings - probably in the power section of the amp block that I should check? That maybe I'm missing that would give me that "thump" and point of break-up as I increase the volume?
With SS + real cab, you'd want to set an IC on the speaker page that at least roughly matches the rez freqs of the real cab used. Also, afaik, MB5050 is nowhere near as flat as Matrix so maybe an apples + oranges comparison unless compensatong somehow in testing for the marked coloration of the MB.
 
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With SS + real cab, you'd want to set an IC on the speaker page that at least roughly matches the rez freqs of the real cab used. Also, afaik, MB5050 is nowhere near as flat as Matrix so maybe an apples + oranges comparison unless compensatong somehow in testing for the marked coloration of the MB
I guess what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference in the power and thump that a tube power amp provides that a flat SS power amp does not. It's not "color" so much as it is a physical dynamic that is lacking. I think your suggestion on the actual cabinet I'm using may be the thing that's missing. I'm using a traditional MB Recto 4x12. Do you happen to know the IC for that cabinet? Is it available as part of the normal presets?
 
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I hope I understand your problem correctly (My native language is not english ;D ).

- If you have power amp (Tube or SS) and there is effect return input that maybe mutes the pre-amp signal and less coloring sound with
things you mentioned).


There is no right or wrong way also in this question or may I say that correct one is that rig that player itself like most.
I have tube amp and now I use Harley Benton GPA-400 (cheap power, no tubes).
Earlier I tried Axe 2 and Axe 3 through my tube amp Laney L5studio and sound from Axe was not as good like Axe only to my audio interface - monitors.
  • When I tried to tube amp front then needed tweak sound using bass, middle, treble etc. but still not sound good enough and same than Axe alone.
  • When I tried to tube amp effect return (it mutes the pre-amp signal) sound was better but not as good than Axe itself.

The problem there was, that tube amp Laney L5studio colors sound itself too much and difficult to find proper adjustments (neutral ones).
But this problem can be also for some players good thing, be cause main thing is that player itself like sound (even it´s not same as Axe alone).

For me main thing is, that I make sound using Axe (not using any power amps). But there was one thing that I wanted -> I have 212 (2x12") cab and wanted use that to get "more sound" and more sound using power amp (without coloring sound).

So what I did:

- My LaneyLT212 cab is now also stereo (it was only mono), Left input is Mono/Left and Right input R (M/L - R), so I can use it with my tube amp or Axe 3 -> HB GPA-400 -> Laney LT212.

Main thing is that power amp don´t give color for Axes presets and it is neutral for sound and also that 212 cab give nice "depth" to sound but not color it, also now some effects comes nicely through 212 cab stereo (ex. delay etc.).

I love this rig Axe III -> HB GPA-400 -> 212 cab stereo (bonus is that same time I can use both XLR and 1/4 Connection 1 outputs , one to audio interface and one to HB GPA-400 so if I wont sound comes from cab and monitors.
Thank you so much for your response. Your English is very good. Thank you again! I guess your experience, and maybe preference, is opposite of me. For me, the tube power amp is way better than using a SS power amp. I would love nothing more than to have the SS power amp be comparable to Tube Power. But I cannot seem to get the AxeIII to sound as good through a SS as I can a Tube. I realize that SS gives the flat, uncolored sound. But for those who are asking whether there is a difference between Tube and SS, so far, unless I can find a way to tweak the AxeIII with SS to be comparable to using it with tube, for me, the Tube wins, hands-down. It's not so much a color as it is as "power" and "thump" that tubes provide that I can't seem to emulate through the AxeIII's power stages of the amp block. There is one thing that someone below suggested. I'll try that to see if it helps! Will be glad to let everyone know how it goes.
 
I guess what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference in the power and thump that a tube power amp provides that a flat SS power amp does not. It's not "color" so much as it is a physical dynamic that is lacking. I think your suggestion on the actual cabinet I'm using may be the thing that's missing. I'm using a traditional MB Recto 4x12. Do you happen to know the IC for that cabinet? Is it available as part of the normal presets?
you'd have to measure your cab to be sure but that requires some specialized equipment / software. LT shows us a less scientific method here that you could try but which did not reveal anything for my real cabs (2 x MB112 ported with v30s). At the very least I'd set IC to one of the 412 Recto or USA cabs in the IC list. I chose the estimated (from description) closest cab from the IC list to my cabs + changed the low rez frequency value to celestion's spec for my v30s (a marked difference over other IC choices).
 
I may or may not be able to hear the difference between a solid state power amp like the Matrix vs the Freyette tube amp but I am not hear to debate sound, especially in a full band setting.

The reason I picked the Freyette over the Matrix was because of feel. I have no doubts that with the Axefx III will let a person adjust that "feeling" so you can get that feel (Sag, clipping, tubes, etc)l, but I wasn't able to get the same feel from the Matrix as I was with the Freyette when I had both amps at my house. I went with the Freyette because I was able to dial in a sound immediately that I loved, and continued to play several patches and each time get the sound and the feel I liked, where the Matrix sounded a bit Muffled and too Hi-Fi for me.

Again, I know a lot more than I did a year ago (including throwing in eq filters, bias adjustments, etc etc but I still use the amp modeling with the Freyette and it doesn't sound bad with the Friedman Runt 50 in the return bypassing the preamp. But there was a feel difference for me. Metallica used Matrix live and if it is good enough for their techs then its good enough for me but until I figure out the magic formula that works for me I am sticking with the tube amp, even though its bigger, heavier, and requires new tubes every so often. So to the original poster try both and see what works for you.

Ultimately I would love to bring just an FM9 and go direct to the house and have a spare headrush FRFR when I need it, but at the moment I am going with a real Mesa Cab and a Freyette tube amp.
I have a few power amps solid state class d and class ab which all sound good but when running my fm9 in to effects return of my mesa Mk iii it’s great just sounds glorious. Obviously I’m running a real guitar cab with these power amps. The orange pedal baby sounds really good for the cost.
 
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