Wish Power amp only models

S

stm113

Power User
I don't have an AF3 but I am on the FM9 list but there's not a wishing place yet so I thought I would put it here since its about modeling and not FM9 specific.

With the f drive models we have that were designed to be used as (or also as) a preamp pedal (supposedly the Metal Zone for example) it would be cool to have a couple of models of power amps or a couple of amp models with a completely neutral preamp section.

Say a couple of Marshall style EL34 power amps and a couple 6L6 based like the VHT style, a Mark style and maybe a 5150 and or Fender style.

This could also be very cool to use with different amp models with the power amp section turned off.
 
Piing said:
This has been requested several times, but Cliff has said that it is not going to happen.
Click to expand...
You're right. I hope Cliff will change his mind.

Another cool thing would be to have the possibility to change the poweramp type in the amp block just like we do when we change the tonestack.
 
Clive said:
You're right. I hope Cliff will change his mind.

Another cool thing would be to have the possibility to change the poweramp type in the amp block just like we do when we change the tonestack.
Click to expand...

I don't think he will. If I recall it correctly, he said that separating the preamp from the power section would leave his code exposed
 
Again another hopeful +1

Would be cool to swap preamps like the fish & jmp1 around with different power amps like a 2:90 or a VHT2150
 
Piing said:
I don't think he will. If I recall it correctly, he said that separating the preamp from the power section would leave his code exposed
Click to expand...
Heard this many times, for Axefx and other modellers also - separating pre/power amp poses some sort of code exposure risk. I can't fathom why though? - This has been requested so many times accross multiple products that I can't help but think whoever could find a way to offer mix and match preamps / power amps would have a big hit on their hands.
 
Perhaps there is another way to satisfy this need: what tone are you looking for? Providing an example would help us identify how to get that tone. These tube power amplifiers are supposed to be as flat and neutral as possible. I doubt that they have a special flavor that cannot be emulated with some of the the 290 existing amp models at the Axe-FX, starting with the Tube-Pre.
 
Last edited:
One can almost get there in Axefx - Turning power amp off gets you a block with just the pre - so that side is covered. Selecting Tube Pre with pre sag turned off and power amp on gets you a flat eq + plain jane power amp block - copy over the visible power amp parameters from some preferred rack based models (ie USA-PRE, JMP) to color the plain jane power amp. Run your megshift preblock into your megshift powerampblock. The only problem (other than its not neat/tidy/pretty) is that there might be non-visible power amp parameters in those rack based models which can't be copied over and could be responsible for some of the power amp coloration in those models.
 
Piing said:
I don't think he will. If I recall it correctly, he said that separating the preamp from the power section would leave his code exposed
Click to expand...

Yes but with the feature I propose, the preamp would not be seperated from the poweramp.
 
Then if separating the two exposes some code then what about an option for a completely neutral preamp? Either as an option in the existing amps, or a few new models. The power amp models I’d like to have would be a Mesa of some type, the VHT (I know Cliff is a big fan of that one) another 6L6 based one, JCM800 and a couple of other EL34 based ones.

To answer a question, there is not a specific tone I am after but 3 things I’d personally like this for.

1-To use some of the pedals we have in the same way as in the real world running them into the fx return if an amp. It’s been discovered that many distortion pedals sound good or better this way, i.e. the Metal Zone.

2-To get the closer to the sound of running 2 different tube types in the same amp. I had a Randall MTS head that I sold to get my AF2, that thing sounded so great when I ran 2 34’s and 2 6L6’s together. I’ve always wanted a similar experience, which I have not been able to achieve by running the same amp block 2x and just changing the tube type.

3-To get the effect like Metallica did on Puppets by running their MkII’s preamp out into the fx return of their 800’s.
 
sprint said:
One can almost get there in Axefx - Turning power amp off gets you a block with just the pre - so that side is covered. Selecting Tube Pre with pre sag turned off and power amp on gets you a flat eq + plain jane power amp block - copy over the visible power amp parameters from some preferred rack based models (ie USA-PRE, JMP) to color the plain jane power amp. Run your megshift preblock into your megshift powerampblock. The only problem (other than its not neat/tidy/pretty) is that there might be non-visible power amp parameters in those rack based models which can't be copied over and could be responsible for some of the power amp coloration in those models.
Click to expand...

The other problem with this method is that it uses two amp blocks, whereas the "new" feature I talked about uses just one.
 
Clive said:
You're right. I hope Cliff will change his mind.

Another cool thing would be to have the possibility to change the poweramp type in the amp block just like we do when we change the tonestack.
Click to expand...
I like the idea of that a lot. Then if you want just the poweramp sound your can use the tube pre-model.
 
stm113 said:
3-To get the effect like Metallica did on Puppets by running their MkII’s preamp out into the fx return of their 800’s.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think a lot of people here would be very glad to do try that ;)
But remember that Metallica also put EQs and compressors between preamp and poweramp when they recorded MOP, AJFA and BA.
So we're back to the OP : having the possibility to turn off the preamp section in the amp block (for any amp types) !
 
sprint said:
Heard this many times, for Axefx and other modellers also - separating pre/power amp poses some sort of code exposure risk. I can't fathom why though? - This has been requested so many times accross multiple products that I can't help but think whoever could find a way to offer mix and match preamps / power amps would have a big hit on their hands.
Click to expand...
(I really am not trying to stir the pot) but the Quad Cortex does this. It comes stock with some 'power amp only' captures. I captured my Marshall JMP-1 preamp and tried a few of the Power Amp captures...it was awesome.

That said - the QC is missing TON of other things the Axe III has. Both units have pros and cons...but the QC has more cons.
 
BBN said:
(I really am not trying to stir the pot) but the Quad Cortex does this. It comes stock with some 'power amp only' captures. I captured my Marshall JMP-1 preamp and tried a few of the Power Amp captures...it was awesome.

That said - the QC is missing TON of other things the Axe III has. Both units have pros and cons...but the QC has more cons.
Click to expand...
Also not wanting to start another boring debate, buuuut, though it's commendable QC recognizes some appetite for mix and match pwr/pre amps, captures are not full function accurate amp models - not by a long shot to me - so apples/oranges methinks.
 
Last edited:
Cliff stated many times this won't happen. I believed he's also said the Poweramp is where the secret sauce for the FAS recipe really lies in, so unless he finds a way to protect his IP he just won't expose it for someone to reverse-engineer it. After all, I can think of at least one or two forum "regulars" that were pretty much into every single piece of info and tiny tech notes Cliff gave out in the past, actively asking about how things worked and now they have their own modeling offerings out there and nowhere to be seen here.

As for the post above by @BBN , really it's not the same to compare "captures" to the modeling algorithms, two separate approaches. "IF" Fractal did "Profiling/Capturing" you could have whatever Poweramp you want without any problem, for sure. It's the overall modeling engine that Cliff wants to protect.
 
Can someone post an example of guitar tone that is exclusive of power amp without preamp, and cannot be achieved with what we got at the Axe-FX? I am curious.
 
sprint said:
I can't help but think whoever could find a way to offer mix and match preamps / power amps would have a big hit on their hands.
Click to expand...

I'm not challenging the differences in the units (and approach). Yes captures are different than modelling.

Was simply addressing this comment above. - It 'can' mix pre amp and power amps. And it does create unique combinations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom