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Power amp modelling work around ........

Discussion in 'AX8 Discussion' started by Lenster, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Lenster

    Lenster
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    Hi guys/girls, (not sure if we have any ladies here ??)

    I've found my current happy place with monitoring, Carvin TS100 > GFlex 212 stereo cab.
    Glorious tones, (no need to buy another amp, EVER).
    Simply blown away how good it sounds.
    But....... I'm aware you cannot disable power amp modelling if you still wish to feed a direct signal to FOH.
    I can, but trying to avoid micing the cab.
    For those that run your AX8 this way, how are you setting the power amp modelling?
    I have found it creates a HIFI effect and i prefer the tones without it engaged.
    I'm also wanting to set up a more accurate FRFR rig by toggling between my LIVE rig (OUT 2 ) and the FRFR (OUT 1) speaker (Yamaha DBR12).
    FYI, I'm comfortable with Direct tones, But currently preferring my live set up, so if i can get my FRFR tones more accurate I'll be an extremely happy user...(not that i'm not already ..:D)
    Any feedback will be appreciated.
    Cheers from Australia !
    :)
     
  2. chris

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    me personally... i'd just mic the real cab. we're all familiar with that, and it's worked for years. not every setup can have every option *shrug*. but that's just my take on it.
     
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  3. Lenster

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    Do you run a similar set up chris or FRFR?
     
  4. chris

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    i'm full FRFR, have been for 10 years. but i do try things out all the time, and early on i ran the Axe2 through my Diezel head to test it out. i liked it, but i don't have a place to play loud cabs like that anymore. so i sold it all.

    that said, when i tried it, i didn't like having to balance 2 tones, the FOH signal and my real cab signal. so i just mic'd the cab - soundguys know what to do with that and i was done. 1 tone to tweak. i know others here are successfully balancing the 2 though, so hopefully others chime in.

    but at a gig, i strive for simplicity. too much to go wrong and you're thinking about all that rather than playing in the moment.
     
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  5. FractalAudio

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    Mic the cab.
     
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  6. Lenster

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    Ok
    Thanx
     
  7. jefferski

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    @chris - how do you mic your FR cab? Two mics, or just skip the tweeter? I played one show last year where the guy wouldn't run a line out from either of our gear (other guy had a helix), or talk about what we were doing - so he just mic'd the 12" in my cab. Surprisingly, it didn't sound too bad out front. Normally I just run a line from Out 2 and let them take care of FOH while I do my stage sound on Out 1.
     
  8. chris

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    this thread is about using a real amp and real cab. so when i said i'd mic the cab, i meant the real guitar cab, like normal.

    if you're going to a Full-Range speaker, you don't need to mic it because you just send the same full range signal to the PA system which also uses full range speakers.

    for your example, that sucks. maybe next time give him a 1/4" cable and request a DI box, treat this like a keyboard. they usually know what to do then. but yeah, i've been in dumb situations like that. in that case, it doesn't matter to me - have the sound guy do the most craziest thing, take pictures and videos, then put it on social media. i'm serious :D
     
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  9. Sonofiam

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    I usually don't tell engineers what I'm running anymore, just how many lines I need. I just plug my own XLRs (if what's provided isn't long enough) from the AX8 into the mic line for the cab they presume is going to be used. I've too many lengthy discussions leading to delays setting up trying to explain what I'm using and the 'ideal' way to set it up on their end.

    Don't get me wrong, I love answering questions and talking about the AX8, just not when we're typically on a tight schedule and needing to get things done quickly. I'm more than happy to talk after we're good to go.
     
  10. jefferski

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    "why do you need a full range speaker for a guitar?" <sigh... because we're using high-end modelers that have technology that takes advantage of what they can do>

    then I said, "well, it IS a full-range speaker, so if you mic it you won't get the right sound " ... he didn't want to discuss it at all. So we let him do what he wanted - I doubt he would've gone for the 1/4" idea either. The crazy thing was this was one of the places in town that had more touring acts where you'd expect to find a more knowledgeable soundman. And he wasn't a technophobe, he was running a mixer w/ an iPad app. Fortunately he quit before we played there again ;-)

    Everywhere else, I just tell them I need an XLR and we're good to go.
     
  11. mikeyen

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    That sums up my philosophy as well. I've had way too many things go wrong at gigs - the simpler the setup, the less I have to think about the setup, the more I can focus on just playing. I keep my live presets simple, bring backups for everything, and I'm not gun-ho about having things setup MY way.

    If I don't know the venue I bring a poweramp and guitar cab so I have all my bases covered. If the sound guy is cool with direct I just go AX8 > the board and I"m good. Sound guy gives me a funny look at the mention of direct? Fine, I setup my amp/cab and let them mic' it up. There are multiple bands and limited space so they want me to use the backline? Fine, I plug my AX8 into FX return of whatever amp they have, or stack my poweramp on top of the halfstack and plug into the 4x12.

    At the end of the day, majority of the audience isn't going to be able to tell the difference, as long as it doesn't sound horrible - play well and putting on a good show is what people will remember.
     
  12. mikeyen

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    People are used to what they're used to - while more and more sound guys are open to technology and understand how to work with modeled guitar sounds, there are plenty who swear by good ol' SM57 into a guitar cab. I've been using digital gear since the early days of Line 6, and have had that same conversation way too many times. Eventually, I realized that it's just easier to just pick my battles instead of trying to convince people who are set in their ways. I setup my patches so I can either go direct or into a guitar amp/cab if I need to (see above post), and depending on the sound guys' preference I can go either way.
     
  13. jefferski

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    Yea, I agree. And after the one brief conversation, I let it go... not worth the debate.
     
  14. Lenster

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    i think I read your story @jefferski somewhere before. Goes to show not all sound guys are on the ball, good thing he has now departed that venue.
    As mentioned, I have my bases covered, so "i'll continue to try and create better Direct tones with my DBR12, but have the back up of poweramp and cab. Such a great time for us guitarists indeed. I've only played direct 3 times with the AX8, no hiccups, just getting used to it is the biggest factor. My next mission is upgrading my Shure215 IEM to Westone AM pro 30. That's one thing i haven't done with the AX8.
     
  15. jefferski

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    Yea, I might have posted it before... I hope I don't repeat myself too often! ;-)

    (or maybe you meant other people w/ the same situation...)
     
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  16. chris

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    you know what, i have both the 215 and the westone UM pro 30 (the non ambient version)... i totally prefer the 215. maybe just me. and i definitely EQ my IEM send a lot.

    but there's some mid range thing i can't get rid of on the Westones, where with the 215 i can eq it and have a "firm" sound that i like.

    i've used the 425's as well but they broke haha, so i just got the 215's as a quick replacement, but i've stuck with them and prefer it. weird! i'll keep working with the Pro30s, but *shrug*
     
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  17. Lenster

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    I've only used 215's, never tried anything else. My problem with IEM's is the lack of ambience, crowd interaction. I always end up with one out, which is not good for your hearing. After reading Mark Day's thread somewhere on the AM pro 30's, i looked them up, watched and read reviews and they sound like what i'm chasing, that ambient feel. Most times i just say F*** it, give me a wedge .... :D
     
  18. mikeyen

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    Lol, so it's not just me who keeps one of the IEM danging out! I do switch them mid set so I get equal amount of hearing damage on each side. :D
     
  19. Lenster

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    LOL
    Aaah, thats the secret.
    Thanx !!!
     
  20. chris

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    yeah i am really interested about the ambient ports, but it seems to me like a non-adjustable "room mic"? i'd have to try it to be sure, but i don't want to drop that $$ right now.
     
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