Power amp modelling on or off when using real Cab & Direct FOH cab sims?

Ant Music

Fractal Fanatic
Ok, I have just bought myself two of the EHX 44 Magnum power amps so I can run my new Carvin Legacy stereo 2x12 cabinet. I also want to send a direct line to the FOH using the Cab sims.

I have noticed that I prefer the tone going to the cab better when the power amp modelling is switched off (as one would expect) but when I switch it off in the global menu it is changing the sound going to the FOH negatively.

How do people get around this? Anyone else had this issue at all? Thanks guys.
 
I don't do mine that way (I use an FRFR monitor) but I thought that if I did, I would split my signal, putting my cab on a separate "line" in the layout, and send each to the appropriate outputs.

I suppose you could accomplish the same thing by tapping your signal signal just ahead of the cab block and reroute just that, so long as you have nothing "post cab" you wanted going to the Legacy. As an additional mind bender, you can even have blocks in one path you don't in the other if you like that (maybe you want a reverb on stage, but your sound man wants to control his own reverb level, etc).

There are many here who are routing gurus, I am sure one will share the Master Class on it!
 
Ok, I have just bought myself two of the EHX 44 Magnum power amps so I can run my new Carvin Legacy stereo 2x12 cabinet. I also want to send a direct line to the FOH using the Cab sims.

I have noticed that I prefer the tone going to the cab better when the power amp modelling is switched off (as one would expect) but when I switch it off in the global menu it is changing the sound going to the FOH negatively.

How do people get around this? Anyone else had this issue at all? Thanks guys.

This can only be accomplished by runing two amps, one with Sag Supply at zero ("P.A. off"), where one feeds FOH and the other your backline.

The other solution is to set the Magnum's switch to NORM to keep it flat, and keep power amp modeling enabled.
You can then use a single amp model.
 
I got a 44 Magnum myself, but haven't been able to try it because I don't have a cab. I'm really interested in hearing what others have to say about it.
 
Ok, I have just bought myself two of the EHX 44 Magnum power amps so I can run my new Carvin Legacy stereo 2x12 cabinet. I also want to send a direct line to the FOH using the Cab sims.

I have noticed that I prefer the tone going to the cab better when the power amp modelling is switched off (as one would expect) but when I switch it off in the global menu it is changing the sound going to the FOH negatively.

How do people get around this? Anyone else had this issue at all? Thanks guys.

So you like the tube power amp emulation defeated going through a clean SS amp to a guitar cab? Wow. I have run rigs like this (power+cab) with several SS power amps and never wanted the power amp emulation off, it kills a big portion of what the AFX is all about, you give up so much that it is well worth the investment to tweak it...

Pursuing a way to degrade your setup even further by defeating the tube emulation going to the guitar cab to accommodate seems self-defeating... I would only do this for that type of rig if I had a full tube power amp @ the output. Maybe those cheap class-D chip amps in the 44Mag color the sound a lot... in that scenario, before you split the signal sent to the amp, put a GEQ or PEQ block and adjust the preset before it hits the power amp. It's probably a frequency effect rather than a power amp response effect that you're enjoying.

EDIT: based on yek's response it looks like that those power amps have some kind of defeat-able curve. MEssing with that is really good advice.
 
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I run mine on thru the effects returns of my Mesa heads into my Mesa cabs. Sounds thin and less punch with it off. But whatever sounds good to you is what I'd recommend.
 
So you like the tube power amp emulation defeated going through a clean SS amp to a guitar cab? Wow. I have run rigs like this (power+cab) with several SS power amps and never wanted the power amp emulation off, it kills a big portion of what the AFX is all about, you give up so much that it is well worth the investment to tweak it...

Pursuing a way to degrade your setup even further by defeating the tube emulation going to the guitar cab to accommodate seems self-defeating... I would only do this for that type of rig if I had a full tube power amp @ the output. Maybe those cheap class-D chip amps in the 44Mag color the sound a lot... in that scenario, before you split the signal sent to the amp, put a GEQ or PEQ block and adjust the preset before it hits the power amp. It's probably a frequency effect rather than a power amp response effect that you're enjoying.

EDIT: based on yek's response it looks like that those power amps have some kind of defeat-able curve. MEssing with that is really good advice.

This. I tried the 44mag once with a standard guitar cab, and my thoughts afterward were more along the lines of "how do I defeat the 44mag," not the Axe's PA modeling.
 
I don't do mine that way (I use an FRFR monitor) but I thought that if I did, I would split my signal, putting my cab on a separate "line" in the layout, and send each to the appropriate outputs.

I suppose you could accomplish the same thing by tapping your signal signal just ahead of the cab block and reroute just that, so long as you have nothing "post cab" you wanted going to the Legacy. As an additional mind bender, you can even have blocks in one path you don't in the other if you like that (maybe you want a reverb on stage, but your sound man wants to control his own reverb level, etc).

There are many here who are routing gurus, I am sure one will share the Master Class on it!

Yeah that's what I'm already doing. I just expected that it would be a no no to send power amp modelling into a power amp.
 
Yeah that's what I'm already doing. I just expected that it would be a no no to send power amp modelling into a power amp.
It's not a no-no. Maybe not ideal, but there's no rule against it.

iMO, your FOH sound is way more important than your stage sound. The audience is why we're there, right? No audience member ever said, "You sounded a bit off from where I was sitting, but that's okay, because you sounded great onstage." :)
 
This can only be accomplished by runing two amps, one with Sag Supply at zero ("P.A. off"), where one feeds FOH and the other your backline.

The other solution is to set the Magnum's switch to NORM to keep it flat, and keep power amp modeling enabled.
You can then use a single amp model.

Yeah I am already using two amps in all my presets (one clean and one dirty) because I hate the gap when using x/y switching of the Amp Block.

Also I am keeping the 44 Magnum set to norm as it is.

So far I"m liking the sound with no power amp modelling and the curve set to norm going into the cab but obviously that leaves me with the problem still of no Power Amp modelling going to the FOH.
 
I got a 44 Magnum myself, but haven't been able to try it because I don't have a cab. I'm really interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

I just got one yesterday, so I've only spent two days with it. Its a killer little device and I run it to a 1x12 cab. Normal position, power amp sims ON. The OP apparently prefers them off, but to me it's way better with them on. It's plenty loud and sounds great. I've been running FRFR since I got the Axe-FX almost two years ago, but methinks those days are numbered.
 
This can only be accomplished by runing two amps, one with Sag Supply at zero ("P.A. off"), where one feeds FOH and the other your backline.

The other solution is to set the Magnum's switch to NORM to keep it flat, and keep power amp modeling enabled.
You can then use a single amp model.

Yeah I am already using two amps in all my presets (one clean and one dirty) because I hate the gap when using x/y switching of the Amp Block.

Also I am keeping the 44 Magnum set to norm as it is.

So far I"m liking the sound with no power amp modelling and the curve set to norm going into the cab but obviously that leaves me with the problem still of no Power Amp modelling going to the FOH.
 
The manual says to keep them on if you're running a solid state power amp.

Really. It mentions nothing about recommendations for SS power amps in the Global parameters section. "Power Amp simulations should be turned ON when using a “neutral-sounding” (Solid State) power amp that does NOT significantly affect the tone or feel."

Thanks guys I guesse I'll just leave it on and tweak it till I like it.
 
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Really. It mentions nothing about recommendations for SS power amps in the Global parameters section. "Power Amp simulations should be turned ON when using a “neutral-sounding” (Solid State) power amp that does NOT significantly affect the tone or feel."
Here's what the manual has to say about it:

The Manual said:
  • Power Amp simulations should be turned ON when using a “neutral-sounding” (Solid State) power amp thatdoes NOT significantly affect the tone or feel.
  • Power Amp simulations should be turned OFF when using the RETURN on a tube head or combo, or a guitar-oriented tube power amp—one that significantly affects to the tone and feel.
  • In either case, it is completely safe and reasonable to try both settings to see which you prefer.

Even if you're using a guitar-oriented, tube-based power amp, there may still be reasons to use the Axe's power amp sim, particularly if you're not slamming the input of the power amp.
 
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