Positioning for gig volume tweaking

DrHee

Member
Possibly a daft question - not sure, but anyway...
When you are creating presets at high volume for gigs at home or studio, how do you position yourself relative to speaker for adjustment/eq? I'm assuming that due to the Fletcher-M effect, sticking your head directly in line with output is going to increase that effect dramatically and not really be representative of what most people hear at gig anyway, or what you get on stage (unless you position yourself directly in line). It's also not good for your hearing either!! However the natural thing to do is probably to position head in line with output even if not best - wondering what others do?
Thanks
 
I always create my presets at low volume, or often under headphones. Once they sound good at low volume, I know they'll definitely work at high volume in a live setting as well. Usually any further tweaks involve a bit of EQ if it's not cutting through the band's mix properly, but nine times out of ten, it's fine.
 
I always create my presets at low volume, or often under headphones. Once they sound good at low volume, I know they'll definitely work at high volume in a live setting as well. Usually any further tweaks involve a bit of EQ if it's not cutting through the band's mix properly, but nine times out of ten, it's fine.

If it works for you, perfect. But it's totally the opposite of the "recommended" approach. Because of the Fletcher Munson Curve.
 
The answer probably depends on whether you're running FRFR, direct to FOH, amp+cab, and any combination thereof.

I'm dialling in for direct-to-FOH, so I use two CLRs, positioned as floor wedges about 8 feet apart or so, and I stand in the sweet spot in front and between them, ie on-axis, about 8-10 feet away. (I'm running in stereo, therefore it's easy to tell when I'm in the sweet spot.) Overall volume is "loud stage" - enough to compete with a heavy-handed drummer, but not ear-bleedingly loud. What I'm mostly listening for is the top and bottom ends, to make sure that the bass is not shaking the room on bottom string palm mutes, and that the top end isn't too shrill. I do most of my setting up playing against backing tracks and programme material from my iPad. I also have my trad amp + cab rig in the room, which I sometimes use for a reality check if I'm struggling to dial in a preset. Whatever monitoring you use, you need to be listening on-axis in my opinion. Take plenty of breaks to avoid ear fatigue.
 
I always create my presets at low volume, or often under headphones. Once they sound good at low volume, I know they'll definitely work at high volume in a live setting as well. Usually any further tweaks involve a bit of EQ if it's not cutting through the band's mix properly, but nine times out of ten, it's fine.

I have the exact opposite experience of this. My gig volume presets are very different to my recording/practice level presets. I usually stand a in the middle of the two pa speakers in a band environment in order to tweak. That way I generally hear what the audience will hear.
 
I usually tweak at sitting with my monitor (k12 set upright) sitting normal, and tweak... get something I like, then stand and turn it up, tweak, lower volume sit back down and save it.
 
I always create my presets at low volume, or often under headphones. Once they sound good at low volume, I know they'll definitely work at high volume in a live setting as well. Usually any further tweaks involve a bit of EQ if it's not cutting through the band's mix properly, but nine times out of ten, it's fine.

sorry matey... I cannot agree with this...
presets built at low volume often suffer with all kinds of probs at high volume because they're generally 'over cooked'
especially presets at the higher gain end of things, or that use lots of strong ambient fx..
 
positioning for high volume preset tweaks.

I tend to stand where I usually would in relation to my cabs on stage..
in my case, I like my cabs to shoot the sound past me to the right hand side
this is because I don't like standing right in the beam.. but it allows me to step into the beam when I want / need to..
I dial the presets in so they sound great to me and my position because that is what I have to work with on stage..
you have to sound and feel great for yourself first and foremost..
if you sound / feel great, you'll be best placed to deliver your best possible performance..
 
Thanks for those thoughts. Varying opinions i see. I use a CLR and have always created presets with my head in direct beam. I recently found that no amount of tweaking gets me to as good a sound as i had at low volume. However the other day i tried listening from various positions including leaving the room slightly (gtr still attached!!) and this made everything sound better. I assume my positioning was overlaying a level of natural filter/eq so maybe i need to try positioning myself relative to speaker more akin to this on-stage rather than the direct beam positioning.
Thanks
 
low vol and hi vol are an entirely different deal

it's very difficult to have hi vol tones that are as "hi-fi" as low vol tones..
that much top gets shrill, and that much low end gets boomy..
hi vol tones that work are usually a compromise between what you want and what you can get away with..
 
Setting up FRFR cabs for gig volumes I pretty much mirror clarky with a few exceptions. For a back line setting I like the cab to elevated off the ground 3 feet or so and sitting 4-6' back providing there is room on the stage. In a traditional floor monitoring setting things can be a little different so EQ is your friend but mostly pretty straight forward.

Some presets I have a GEQ with a slight frown to the curve so if it sounds good a low volume, at higher volumes the lows and highs tend to be hyped (FM effect) turn on the GEQ and no more problem. A lot of EQ managment for the most part, best thing is to start with a good fundamental tone then shape it to fit the sonic environment you are working in at the time. The real trick is being able to do it very quickly ;) and that comes only with practice.
 
Sixstring - I found the same when testing Matrix FRFR monitors..
if they were placed behind me, I preferred them to be raise to about knee height or there abouts..
I guess this places the cone at a similar height to an upper cone in a 4x12 cab..
 
Because of the FM effect, I think if you are doing things at relatively low volume, then go for something darker with less bass. Those are the parts that will get accentuated at high volumes and it will result in a better shot at getting a good sound or only having to tweak slightly. I cannot build patches at home at the volume necessary to reproduce gig settings because I share a wall and have already got the call from my neighbors in the past.
 
Because of the FM effect, I think if you are doing things at relatively low volume, then go for something darker with less bass. Those are the parts that will get accentuated at high volumes and it will result in a better shot at getting a good sound or only having to tweak slightly. I cannot build patches at home at the volume necessary to reproduce gig settings because I share a wall and have already got the call from my neighbors in the past.

I've found that it's easier to create low volume presets that sound great...
then make copies to dial in loud and make them sound great too..
 
I always create my presets at low volume, or often under headphones. Once they sound good at low volume, I know they'll definitely work at high volume in a live setting as well. Usually any further tweaks involve a bit of EQ if it's not cutting through the band's mix properly, but nine times out of ten, it's fine.

I do the same and it works fine; however, I've spent a lot of time comparing what I hear in my IEM compared to what comes out of the PA at volume, so I now know how they translate.

I can now build patches via my IEMs that work fine at gig volume with minimal tweaking.
 
I stand where I will be on stage relative to my monitoring device.

Cabinet - about 5 feet in front of it with my back turned.
Monitor wedge - stand right in front of it.

i don't dial in using Studio monitors. That's for recording. Live is a completely different animal.
I talk about how I dial in my sounds here. https://youtu.be/IUomP8TqSG8 (The first four minutes are spent talking about t live)
 
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