Port City possibly getting into to FRFR game

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portcityamps

Member
Hi everyone. Daniel from Port City here. We have been asked dozens of times to make a FRFR cab. We are now seriously considering this. I wanted to ask all of you who may be interested what you would be looking for. If we do this we want to nail it. What features and functions would you like us to have? Thanks in advance!

Daniel
Port City Amps
 
portcityamps said:
Hi everyone. Daniel from Port City here. We have been asked dozens of times to make a FRFR cab. We are now seriously considering this. I wanted to ask all of you who may be interested what you would be looking for. If we do this we want to nail it. What features and functions would you like us to have? Thanks in advance!

Daniel
Port City Amps
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Cool! I think a few of your artists are Fractal users too, so an FRFR from you guys would be interesting.

I think there are a few camps of popular FRFRs.

A) Wedge, coaxial, higher price, high fidelity - Atomic CLR, Xitone wedge, RCF NX 12-SMA, Dynacord AXM 12A...
B) Cab, mid price, guitar oriented sound - Matrix FR10/12, Xitone MBritt, Mission Gemini 1/2, Friedman ASM/ASC...
C) PAs - Yamaha DXR, QSC K, EV ELX, Alto TS...

I'd be interested to see which direction you'd take it, and how you'd differentiate from other products. I can see you guys probably doing a cab type with your ported design... Passive or active? Maybe you guys can fill a hole that Atomic left when they stopped making tube powered FRFRs, but I have no idea how big that hole is. Might be tiny, probably why they stopped making it XD

Personally, I will not even consider anything over 40 lbs. Neodymium perks my ears. Friedman FRFRs make the least sense to me, as they're super heavy, and have relatively poor specs. My needs are already met by the coaxial wedge types, so I don't have any personal feature/function requests... but I hope this helps somewhat! :p
 
Coaxial
Louder than anything else on the market (super important point there)
Light weight
Tons of headroom
Variable position ( pole, upright, wedge)
Punch punch punch
Make them LOUD and beefy. It needs to compete with a 4x12 both in all and feel in a live loud metal situation.
 
Also needs to cost less than $800 for the powered version, preferably around $600 for the passive version. Don’t bother with 2x12, single driver.
 
For me, it's flat response #1. With that said, lighter is better. Multi position (pole, wedge, upright) is a plus but I could live with a single configuration. Coax sounds the tiniest little bit better to my ears, and would make more sense for a traditional cabinet configuration, but would not be a deal breaker.

For reference, I mostly run through either Yamaha DXR's, QSC K12's, or Matrix NL12's (paired with a GT1000). The coax cabs I've tried were someone else's...
 
accuracy is of utmost importance to me. if it can be extremely accurate and feel more like a cab then awesome, but i don't want to sacrifice accuracy for vibe....that's why I use a CLR.
 
ScotHessler said:
For me, it's flat response #1. With that said, lighter is better. Multi position (pole, wedge, upright) is a plus but I could live with a single configuration. Coax sounds the tiniest little bit better to my ears, and would make more sense for a traditional cabinet configuration, but would not be a deal breaker.

For reference, I mostly run through either Yamaha DXR's, QSC K12's, or Matrix NL12's (paired with a GT1000). The coax cabs I've tried were someone else's...
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How do you define flat response? XD

Jay Mitchell would say "a 2-way speaker consisting of a 12" woofer and a horn HF that produces flat amplitude response through the crossover transition in a vertical on-axis position will have a response notch that is 20+ -dB deep over a substantial portion of an octave within 10-15 degrees above or below axis." This would apply for your DXR and K12...

I think if you want flat response greater than 15 degrees on the vertical axis, you need coax. Or coincident, as he would correct. Not just tiniest bit better IMHO :p
 
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Nathan M. said:
There appears to be two basic groups with one group interested in a very clear and neutral FRFR cab such as the Atomic CLR is considered to be and the second group leaning more towards the guitar cab sound and feel such as the Mission Engineering Gemini or the Friedman units. I would guess the position used would have something to do with that such as the monitor wedge at your feet or a backline cab behind you.
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I think so too!

I would imagine it would take some serious DSP work to develop a unit that does both well so it's probably one or the other.
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There seems to be products that do both well already.
As far as neutral wedge vs backline, I think the Atomic CLR does both well, has settings for both.
For neutral vs guitar cab, Xitone does both well with their MBritt type cabs, as well as closed back, open back, etc.

One common request among both groups is they want it as light as possible with with an efficient way of carrying the unit and moving it around. It appears the handles and their position are an after thought on some of these units available today.
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Agreed! Again, Atomic CLR and Xitone have very comfortable "center of gravity" type handles. I don't know about the others, but certainly some PAs really suck with handles.
 
I agree with the comments that there seems to be two distinct type of FRFR users, the ones that want something very accurate (i.e. CLR) or something that's still Full Range but more tweaked towards normal guitar cabs (Friedman ASM12). I've tried two different kinds of Xitone's, Atomic CLR, Yamaha DXR10, Friedman ASM12 and Matrix FR10. The ones I still use are the Atomic CLR's (I have 2) and Yamaha DXR10's (I have 2 of those as well).

The main problem to me with the Atomic CLR is with the company itself. I've never had any problems with mine but it took a long, long time to actually be able to purchase them for me. There's many stories on this and other forums where people have had issues with warranty replacements and things like that. So to me there's definitely room for someone bigger like Port City to make a "true" FRFR that by the looks of it has a much more robust distribution model. To get a foot-hold in this market though it needs to be really high-end like the CLR, Xitone or RCF or people (like me) will just wait and deal with the issues of getting it and like me just buy two in case something happens with one of them. If it was me, I would just aim at exactly the same specs as the CLR – US $999, 33lbs (neodymium) coaxial speakers, 500W with 2 inputs and assuming you can make it as flat and sound as good as the CLR, there should be quite a nice market waiting there.

The other, and this may well be more inline with where Port City is currently sitting in the market, is to make something that's more guitar cab like and still Full Range. As pointed out several times in this thread, the alternatives here are just too bulky. As I wrote earlier, I have a Friedman ASM12 and I'm going to sell it. It sounds fine for what it is but it's just too big and bulky for me to be useful. In a way, I can see two different types of products here. One would be like the Port City Wave 1x12 (http://www.portcityamps.com/cabinets/1x12-wave-cabinet) as it is with just an added built-in amp (maybe something like: http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...el-with-dsp-and-bluetooth-2-5k-crossover.html). I could see that someone that still wants to use a regular guitar cab could use that together with an AX8 and a guitar or two on the back, and it would be a nice simple walk-in rig. And you already know how to build those. The other would be a Port City Wave type cab but with a Full Range (coaxial neodymium) speaker. The goal here would be to tweak it so it sounds good out of the box with common IR's but still provide more guitar cab omphness that what "true" FRFR like the CLR does. This is the market where the Friedman ASM is and doing something similar like that but with more portability would be welcome for a lot of people.

I absolutely wouldn't worry about trying to doing something for everyone. Even within something as small as the FRFR market, there's still too many options.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02. It would always be good to have more options to choose from :)
 
1) I need a speaker that will perform two functions: personal monitor and backline. The monitor function should be as accurate as possible. If EQ or other tricks are needed to make it work well as backline, that's fine—as long as I can defeat those tricks for accuracy.

2) Loud enough to gig as backline without running out of steam.

3) Dual inputs with independent level adjustment so I can blend my Axe-Fx signal and a monitor mix from the desk.

3) Rugged.

4) Light weight.

5) Wedge format, with on-end option for backline.

6) Comfortable and well-balanced carry handle(s)

7) Easily-accessible customer support.


Nice to have:

- Pole mount and fly points for general usefulness.

- A third input for mini-TRS sources.

- EDIT: Bluetooth.
 
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Rex said:
1) I need a speaker that will perform two functions: personal monitor and backline. The monitor function should be as accurate as possible. If EQ or other tricks are needed to make it work well as backline, that's fine—as long as I can defeat those tricks for accuracy.

2) Loud enough to gig as backline without running out of steam.

3) Dual inputs with independent level adjustment so I can blend my Axe-Fx signal and a monitor mix from the desk.

3) Rugged.

4) Light weight.

5) Wedge format, with on-end option for backline.

6) Comfortable and well-balanced carry handle(s)

7) Easily-accessible customer support.


Nice to have:

- Pole mount and fly points for general usefulness.

- A third input for mini-TRS sources.
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I totally agree with these points. Bluetooth would be good too
 
Is it possible to design a dual design cab that can function as a more traditional guitar cab in addition to FRFR? That's a product that doesn't exist, that I'm aware of.
 
The Xitone cabs have a nice middle ground going on, where they are accurate, but also feel more like a traditional guitar cab. Solid owner, excellent build quality, customization options, great power amp, and some of the cabs (all?) have switches for variable positions, and the ability to turn a tweeter on or off.
 
The port City 112 cab has always impressed me with how big it sounds when compared to other 112 cabs on the market! This is something to gravitate to if you are considering a new venture in the FRFR market and that's size. if I had any say at all I would be looking to build something that has the accuracy needed to compete, multiple inputs and mixing options, power to keep up, light weight but be small all at the same time.

Most everyone gravitates to a 12" speaker of some sort whether it's a guitar cab of FR cab a 12" speaker is pretty much the norm. I would say knock down the doors on something small but so powerful it would keep up or kill a 12" offering!

Challenge dropped!
 
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