Poll: Axe-fx II vs Empress Compressor shootout (clip included)

Which is better?

  • Clip 1

    Votes: 33 73.3%

  • Clip 2

    Votes: 12 26.7%
  • Total voters
    45
james... said:
I used to be a "why do I need a compressor" guy. But the thing is, when I turned the compressor(s) on in the patch I recorded with, it just sounded plain better than when they were off. Everything is just fuller and more consistent sounding. A well dialed in transparent comp is something a lot of players don't know they need until they hear it.
Click to expand...

I was going to ask why use one (especially in my case of extreme preamp gain). Hmmmmm.

In any case, I think the first one has more fuzz in it or is less focused sounding.

Supplementally: are there some syncopations in the main riff?
 
The compressor just seems to make the overall signal more clear and balanced overall. You might lose some dynamics though. I haven't tested that yet.

I'm not sure what syncopation is. (not a real musician.) I just made the riff up on the fly.
 
Can't decide which one I hear better.... But, to me a good compressor is also about the "feel" to. The transparency to me along with feel is what makes it best.
 
Ok, time to learn how to use a compressor ... I never understood what it lended to the sound, but I can hear it in both those clips. Clip one grabs my ears. Both sound great, if slightly different.
 
Both sound great to me, but slightly different. I can easily picture one sounding better than the other [depending!] on the material in question
 
All you have to do is look at the waveform to see which clip will sound more open and dynamic,
And which clip is more compressed and limited..
I dont believe your poll is very meaningful, either clip could be made to sound more like the other... which ever one your targeted goal is.
 
I'm probably not alone when I say this but: I hope we get a patch at the end of this rainbow. :)
 
Well it looks like the results at this point are fairly one sided, so I'll do the reveal.

First, I think we can all agree that both clips were incredibly similar. To be fair, I think the first clip was very slightly louder than the second, which could be why a lot of people picked it. But who knows? Both could be superior to the other depending on which mix they were placed in. I know a few of you commented that the first one sounded "full bodied" while the second had more "cut". I would agree with this notion. I really wish I could have posted a clip with both compressors off to illustrate just how good they both sound. If you download the patch, you will see what I mean if you bypass the compressor. I'm sure not everyone will agree, but I feel like the tone is definitely better with the compressor on.

I'm really not surprised that I got them to sound similar, because (from what I can tell) they are both just very well engineered studio compressors. The Axe-fx does have a few extra bells and whistles, but at their core, I think they are really quite similar in how they work.

Anyway, the first clip, which most of you chose, was the Axe-fx compressor.

Allow me to post the compressor settings and explain a few things about how I got there.

Type: studio
Auto: off
Mix: 75%
Thresh: 52.2 db
Ratio: 4.0
Att: 7.17
Rel: 201
Knee: soft
Makeup: on
Detect: rms + peak
filter: 147.2


-First of all, the mix knob was set precisely where my Empress usually sits. Both devices have this (awesome) feature. Play with the mix all you want. I find that you gain more dynamics if you roll it off. Compressors have been known to kill your touch sensitivity, but this control can remedy that to an extent.

-You may need to play with the threshold depending on your guitar. My pickups are somewhat hot so keep that in mind. The gain meter on my Empress peaked out somewhere between 20-23 db on strums. I dialed in the Axe-fx for the same.

-I had to dial in the attack and release by ear. The Empress does not have precise markings for the tolerances so I just made guesses and dialed them in a bit till it sounded right.

-I did not mess with the knee or makeup gain. They sounded about right at stock settings anyway.

- Perhaps most important of all. The filter control is the key to getting the axe-fx to sound more like the Empress. If you dial this up to around 190 hz or so, it will cut some of that bottom end out and give you the throaty sound that the Empress has in the clip. This might be the most overlooked compressor control.


It's up on the exchange now:
Axe-Change - Download Preset - Empress Compressor - by ac_slater

I think I'm most proud of the fact that you can adjust this one (pretty much) like you can the real empress. If you read the Empress manual it becomes clear how to use the controls properly.
 
what I like about the Axe's Comp is that it truely is "transparent" or at least as transparent as possible when it comes down to frequencies. pretty much all compressors I've tried somewhat colour the tone. for some applications this is welcome and a reason why so many love the DynaComp, but personally I don't need that. maybe the reason why I chose clip one. sounded less coloured in the mids. would have been cool though to hear the amp sound without the compressor. anyway, nice demonstration, James !
 
finleysound said:
You are absolutely correct. Even a difference as small as .5 dB will sound "better" to our ears.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I did a little volume normalization when I listened to the clips (generally I do), after adjusting for volume I found I had no real preference. they were a little different but, but I did not prefer one over the other.
 
So accounting for that, the truth is probably more in line with a 50/50 poll. They sound ridiculously close and could probably be dialed in to sound even closer if I took the time.
 
james... said:
- Perhaps most important of all. The filter control is the key to getting the axe-fx to sound more like the Empress. If you dial this up to around 190 hz or so, it will cut some of that bottom end out and give you the throaty sound that the Empress has in the clip. This might be the most overlooked compressor control.
Click to expand...

Thanks this is good to know! I have not been messing with this setting at all.

So what you're saying here is that all frequencies 190hz and below are left out of the compression signal?

That being said, don't most guitarists want the bass to be compressed for a "tighter" feel?

Thanks!
 
james... said:
- Perhaps most important of all. The filter control is the key to getting the axe-fx to sound more like the Empress. If you dial this up to around 190 hz or so, it will cut some of that bottom end out and give you the throaty sound that the Empress has in the clip. This might be the most overlooked compressor control.
Click to expand...

Extremely effective tuning of the compressor behaviour. Just a little explanation for those who are unfamiliar with what it does. It is a sidechain highpass filter. Since low frequencies/notes contain more energy than high ones they will often be squashed even before high notes are compressed at all. Thus, removing low end sent to the compressor circuit will even things out. I always raise that filter quite a bit for guitar compression.
 
BORNintoMUSIC said:
Thanks this is good to know! I have not been messing with this setting at all.

So what you're saying here is that all frequencies 190hz and below are left out of the compression signal?

That being said, don't most guitarists want the bass to be compressed for a "tighter" feel?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

No, the entire signal is compressed. It is the trigger for the compression that is filtered. But as Trazan explained, bass has more energy than high frequencies. So if you filter out the low notes from triggering the compressor you can get a more even response with out as much pumping.
 
I preferred the first half until the last chord where there was no low end growl to my ears, the second half had a nice low end growl on the last chord that wouldn't stop-that would sound nice at the end of a song.
 
IMHO, the AFX Comps have come a long way and are certainly excellent, but I still can't quite get the smooth & natural clean solo compression as I get from my Boss processors (using the Boss CS-3 digital algorithm). I have tried many different approaches to the settings but still haven't found a setting that does this particular thing as well. Keep in mind, I am talking about a solo tone that is compressed enough to compete with fairly high gain saturated patches (sustain wise). There is a certain 'give' or 'cush' to the dynamics that sounds rather tube-like to my ear, which causes the attacks to be very rounded and musical. Any setting suggestions for a CS-3 type sound?

I have always felt that a clean sustained solo tone (a la Jim Messina, etc) is the ultimate test for a guitar compressor.
 
javajunkie said:
No, the entire signal is compressed. It is the trigger for the compression that is filtered. But as Trazan explained, bass has more energy than high frequencies. So if you filter out the low notes from triggering the compressor you can get a more even response with out as much pumping.
Click to expand...

So the compressor is triggered by anything above the filter threshold, yet the whole signal is still compressed. Hmm, it seems like there would be a strong 'pumping' feel if a lot of bass is let through, but suddenly being lowered by a frequency above the filter. Perhaps this is where smart bass management comes into play?

Am I thinking this through correctly?

Thanks.
 
BORNintoMUSIC said:
So the compressor is triggered by anything above the filter threshold, yet the whole signal is still compressed. Hmm, it seems like there would be a strong 'pumping' feel if a lot of bass is let through, but suddenly being lowered by a frequency above the filter. Perhaps this is where smart bass management comes into play?

Am I thinking this through correctly?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The exact opposite since the filter is not being triggered by the bass notes the compressor isn't kicking on/off with all the transients. It will pump less
 
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