Please Explain?

R

Rockin Axe

Member
This is probably gonna be the dumbest post ever posted here, but here goes!
I've been doing a lot of reading on this forum re peoples questions of stereo and mono patches and outs etc.
When guys want to play their AXE live in MONO instead of Stereo, a lot of answers to these questions have been: "simply create your patches in mono".

Does creating you patches in mono mean this below? (eg)

Compressor > Drive > Chorus (Analog mono) > Phaser (Mono) > Flanger (Mono) > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) > Delay (Analog Mono) > Reverb (mono)
then choosing OUTPUT 1 Mode Copy L/R or either SUM L/R Out L only to FOH desk?

So all the effects chosen in a patch are mono effects and the cab is mono and the output 1 mode in the I/O menu is changed from STEREO to Copy L/R or either SUM L/R?

Coz from what I've read, any stereo effects BEFORE a Cab get summed to mono (unless the cab is Stereo). So if you have a mono cab in the patch, does it matter if you choose mono effects or stereo effects before the cab as the stereo effects will sum to mono anyway?

Thanks for any replies.
 
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any stereo effects before a mono cab will be summed to mono unless there is a means in the patch for the stereo to get past the cab. so no it doesn't matter as far as stereo but you can have phase issues with delays such as the 2290. I build all my patches with stereo effects after a mono cab and so far have had no trouble just given the front of house the output 1 left line if they do not run stereo front of house, if they run stereo I give them both outputs! as far as I\O output mode I leave mine on stereo never have changed it!
 
electronpirate said:
Not a dumb question at all. Please check this thread: (Check yek's great post on the 'gotchas' involved)

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-axe-fx-2-settings-stereo-mono-operation.html
Click to expand...

Thanks electronpirate. I have read that thread with Yek's incredible knowledge.
But I guess that explains more about settings than it does about patches.
I do now understand which settings to change but I'm more curious about the effects chosen in a 'mono' patch.
For eg, if I follow what Yek has explained and make those setting changes in the I/O menu, do i still create my patches in stereo (choosing stereo effects) or mono effects?
If I choose stereo effects, do I assume that the changes I make in the I/O menu override my patches if created in stereo? Or do I simply choose mono effects in my patches as explained in my original thread?
 
paranoid said:
any stereo effects before a mono cab will be summed to mono unless there is a means in the patch for the stereo to get past the cab. so no it doesn't matter as far as stereo but you can have phase issues with delays such as the 2290. I build all my patches with stereo effects after a mono cab and so far have had no trouble just given the front of house the output 1 left line if they do not run stereo front of house, if they run stereo I give them both outputs! as far as I\O output mode I leave mine on stereo never have changed it!
Click to expand...

Thx paranoid that makes things a little clearer now.
So what your saying is that your patches are made in stereo and you leave Output 1 in STEREO and therefore you have 2 options - if you want to run mono you give LEFT out to FOH and if you want to run stereo you give FOH LEFT & RIGHT OUT. I like that - best of both worlds!
So then your patches may look something like this (just an eg)
Compressor > Drive > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) Chorus (Stereo) > Phaser (Stereo) > Flanger (Stereo)> Delay (Stereo) > Reverb (Stereo)
 
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That's basically my strategy.

I go stereo (really dual mono) at the cab block or after the cab block.

The just give Out 1 L -> FOH for mono FOH.

I do make sure my L and R signals are not too pan dependent. E.g. I don't have a panning tremolo and avoid any efx that rely on FOH L + R for their full effect.

I do run stereo reverbs and delays though. They sound glorious in dual mono in FOH. And also sound good with just L in FOH.
 
+ 1

My patches have lots of stereo post-cab effects as well, and I do the same thing where I'll just give FOH the left output if FOH is mono.

As he said, avoid heavy panning of effects, especially things like ping-pong delay. It won't sound bad, just keep in mind FOH will only hear half of the delays as it bounces from L to R.

TT
 
barhrecords said:
That's basically my strategy.

I go stereo (really dual mono) at the cab block or after the cab block.

The just give Out 1 L -> FOH for mono FOH.

I do make sure my L and R signals are not too pan dependent. E.g. I don't have a panning tremolo and avoid any efx that rely on FOH L + R for their full effect.

I do run stereo reverbs and delays though. They sound glorious in dual mono in FOH. And also sound good with just L in FOH.
Click to expand...

Thanks bahrecords.
I'll ask you and Tommy Tequila the same question if I may: Can you confirm that I simply leave the settings as described as below and I make my patches (eg) as described below?
I leave Output 1 in STEREO and therefore I have 2 options - if I want to run mono I give LEFT out to FOH and if I want to run stereo I give FOH LEFT & RIGHT OUT. I like that - best of both worlds!
So then my patches may look something like this (just an eg)
Compressor > Drive > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) Chorus (Stereo) > Phaser (Stereo) > Flanger (Stereo)> Delay (Stereo) > Reverb (Stereo)
 
Tommy Tequila said:
+ 1

My patches have lots of stereo post-cab effects as well, and I do the same thing where I'll just give FOH the left output if FOH is mono.

As he said, avoid heavy panning of effects, especially things like ping-pong delay. It won't sound bad, just keep in mind FOH will only hear half of the delays as it bounces from L to R.

TT
Click to expand...

Thanks Tommy Tequila.
I'll ask you and bahrecords the same question if I may: Can you confirm that I simply leave the settings as described as below and I make my patches (eg) as described below?
I leave Output 1 in STEREO and therefore I have 2 options - if I want to run mono I give LEFT out to FOH and if I want to run stereo I give FOH LEFT & RIGHT OUT. I like that - best of both worlds!
So then my patches may look something like this (just an eg)
Compressor > Drive > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) Chorus (Stereo) > Phaser (Stereo) > Flanger (Stereo)> Delay (Stereo) > Reverb (Stereo)
 
Rockin Axe said:
Thx paranoid that makes things a little clearer now.
So what your saying is that your patches are made in stereo and you leave Output 1 in STEREO and therefore you have 2 options - if you want to run mono you give LEFT out to FOH and if you want to run stereo you give FOH LEFT & RIGHT OUT. I like that - best of both worlds!
So then your patches may look something like this (just an eg)
Compressor > Drive > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) Chorus (Stereo) > Phaser (Stereo) > Flanger (Stereo)> Delay (Stereo) > Reverb (Stereo)
Click to expand...

I normally don't use that many modulations in a patch and normally put them in front of the amp. the stereo delay's are my thing, but yes you could build a patch as you exampled and go either way with your outputs, just keep in mind that mono will not give all the signal that the stereo will but some times on stage the audience would not here it all if you ran stereo either!
 
Rockin Axe said:
Thanks bahrecords.
I'll ask you and Tommy Tequila the same question if I may: Can you confirm that I simply leave the settings as described as below and I make my patches (eg) as described below?
I leave Output 1 in STEREO and therefore I have 2 options - if I want to run mono I give LEFT out to FOH and if I want to run stereo I give FOH LEFT & RIGHT OUT. I like that - best of both worlds!
So then my patches may look something like this (just an eg)
Compressor > Drive > Amp > Cab (Hi or Lo res Mono) Chorus (Stereo) > Phaser (Stereo) > Flanger (Stereo)> Delay (Stereo) > Reverb (Stereo)
Click to expand...

Yeah that looks right for what you are describing.

The end of my preset chains are a little weird because I use a GEQ as a amp post volume boost and a filter block as a mute.

DRIVE -> COMP -> PHASER -> AMP -> PITCH -> CAB (STEREO UR)-> GEQ (STEREO for boost) -> TAPE DLY (STEREO or 2 MONO TAPE DLYS) -> REV (STEREO) -> FILTER (STEREO null filter used to mute the guitar out)
 
barhrecords said:
Yeah that looks right for what you are describing.

The end of my preset chains are a little weird because I use a GEQ as a amp post volume boost and a filter block as a mute.

DRIVE -> COMP -> PHASER -> AMP -> PITCH -> CAB (STEREO UR)-> GEQ (STEREO for boost) -> TAPE DLY (STEREO or 2 MONO TAPE DLYS) -> REV (STEREO) -> FILTER (STEREO null filter used to mute the guitar out)
Click to expand...

Ok barhrecords, after looking at your chain above, I think I've finally got it (I think!)
I'm sorry if I keep asking you but it's a little confusing!

So from what I can gather, if I make STEREO patches, then I have the best of both worlds (stereo or mono) - I can choose whether to run mono by giving the FOH LEFT out only, or run STEREO by giving the FOH guy L/R out.
I therefore make my patches in stereo - stereo effects before the cab such as chorus, phaser etc, use a stereo cab, stereo delay and stereo reverb after the cab and hand the FOH guy Left out only for 'half stereo' or 'mono' (without having to change any I/O settings) or hand the FOH guy Left & Right out for full stereo (without having to change any I/O settings). So my STEREO patches would look something like this below (eg) - is that it?

DRIVE -> COMP -> STEREO CHORUS -> STEREO PHASER -> AMP -> STEREO CAB -> STEREO DLY -> STEREO REV

I guess if I wanted to go 'true' mono I would make my patches with all mono effects pre cab, use a mono cab, mono Delay and mono Reverb after cab, and hand the FOH guy Left out only - this would be 'mono' out of the AXE. Change STEREO in I/O settings to COPY L/R or SUM (watch for phasing). So my MONO patches would look something like this below (eg):
DRIVE -> COMP -> MONO PHASER -> AMP -> PITCH -> MONO CAB -> MONO DLY -> MONO REV

Have I understood correctly?

Sorry for the confusion mate.
 
Rockin Axe said:
Change STEREO in I/O settings to COPY L/R or SUM
Click to expand...

if all the effects in a preset are mono, a "Stereo" output setting is really just 2 copies of the same exact thing. so you still don't have to change that Output setting from Stereo.

at this point, what is the actual question(s) here? it seems you understand it pretty well.

perhaps what's making things confusing is that graphically each block is connected via a single line on the axe layout. but for almost all blocks, it's actually a Left and Right signal (so 2 lines) joining to the next block. Mono Cab block is an exception - technically speaking, only 1 line comes out. but even with a Delay block configured as Mono (whatever that may mean to you), there is a Left and Right connection going to the next block, thus preserving any Stereo signal before it.

check out the block diagrams in the manual.

i'm wondering if there is a misunderstanding about the concept of Mono vs Stereo "guitar tones" even before we get to the technicality of creating them in the Axe? are you trying to make Stereo tones in general?

btw, i got your PM. i'm busy lately. i'll contact you soon. thanks.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
if all the effects in a preset are mono, a "Stereo" output setting is really just 2 copies of the same exact thing. so you still don't have to change that Output setting from Stereo.

at this point, what is the actual question(s) here? it seems you understand it pretty well.

perhaps what's making things confusing is that graphically each block is connected via a single line on the axe layout. but for almost all blocks, it's actually a Left and Right signal (so 2 lines) joining to the next block. Mono Cab block is an exception - technically speaking, only 1 line comes out. but even with a Delay block configured as Mono (whatever that may mean to you), there is a Left and Right connection going to the next block, thus preserving any Stereo signal before it.

check out the block diagrams in the manual.

i'm wondering if there is a misunderstanding about the concept of Mono vs Stereo "guitar tones" even before we get to the technicality of creating them in the Axe? are you trying to make Stereo tones in general?

btw, i got your PM. i'm busy lately. i'll contact you soon. thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi Chris.
I won't reply here - it'll go too long.
I'll wait till you reply to my PM and go from there.
Thx.
 
Chris makes a good point, all the blocks have (at least) two audio streams as input.

Some blocks sum these together, e.g. amp block, some keep the two streams discrete, e.g. reverb block.
 
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