Please educate me on the use of EQ in live settings

[wembley]

For the last couple of years I've been using the Ultra directly to the board, fed back through the PA's monitor system. It sounds great, and I've spent quite some time dialing in a few amps + effects that work for me. However, as with any of my previous tube amp set-ups, the sound engineer dials out some frequencies. With my Axe-setup the different sound engineers seem to always apply a bass cut in addition to cutting a few decibels of the frequencies in the 2,5 - 4 kHz range, varying a bit from engineer to engineer. At yesterday's gig, the engineer took off 4 decibels of around 4 kHz, which made the sound duller, although he claimed that it sounded great and less stressing in front of the PA. I must add that the patch I used was not very bright, but still.

As an experienced guitarist having used a lot of amps, the frequencies they dial out are frequencies that I'm used to (and even like!) from listening to the amp in a room. Yet, the engineers seem to identify the frequencies between 2,5 - 4 kHz as harsh or unpleasant from their point of view, and I'm sure they are right. They even encourage me to keep the presence and/or highs up in my amp simulations, as I need the highs, which seems like a bit of a paradox to me.

The problem is that while going direct using the Axe into the board FRFR, I'd like the whole experimenting with new amps/effects/speakers-situation to be more predictable so that I can control it myself from the Axe; I'd like to know what general rules (if any) that apply to building patches and going direct, if there are any global EQ-settings that I can use, etc. E.g. why can't I just dial out the highs using the amp's presence and/or treble knobs?

I'd be happy to hear from any of you that has dealt with this.

 

[Sixstring]

Doesn't it suck when some else is in control of YOUR tone after you spent the time to get it just the way you like it....

As to sound engineers that want you to keep your highs, From a PA stand point it's always better to take away then it is to add when mixing. In the end you just have to live with what your sound man is going to do with your tone and like it. This is why I like to have control of my tone wile on stage, this way at the very least I'm happy.

 

[Muris_Varajic]

Applying low and/or high cut on mixer for the sake of better sound in front
is what I personally do a lot, depending on PA speakers and venue.
Of course it can be really annoying if the cut applies on monitors as well (pre or post fader EQ)
which are often different to front speakers but that's the nature of the beast.
So you can bring your own monitor/s on stage and hook them to Output2 per example
to have your sound on stage as it is while allowing soundman to do what ever it takes on mixer
to make it sound "better" in front.
I personally don't do that as I got tired to carrying things around,
I use monitors provided with PA and if tone in front is ok, all good.
But always try to walk in front, listen and work on it together with soundman,
not every soundman has the same tone preference and it should be sort of compromise
between him and a player.
I don't believe there's a rule of using EQ, it's very depends on many things like
mixer, amp feeding PA, PA speakers, venue etc but again,
your tone should be compromise between you and a soundman.

 

[wowzers]

But always try to walk in front, listen and work on it together with soundman

Definitely. This is a must when you are playing in new places or with people you haven't dealt with before. I always try to get with them before or come in extra early to go over everything with them, so that we are both happy with the sound.

 

[chris]

i run direct, frfr, yadda yadda.

generally speaking, I usually cut the bass and treble on the main graphic before I send it to the house when I play loud and live.

i enjoy having my sound "cut" so people can hear it and so it's not mushy, but at the same time, I don't like to kill anyone with that high end frequency. it's mostly the perceived volume in the room that tells me how much of my highs to cut.

if i was playing a gig at bedroom level or slightly louder, i probably wouldn't cut anything. but as the volume increases, you know that bass and treble increase faster than the mids. multiply this with 2 or 4 speakers facing the audience - those tweeters are made to shoot hundreds of feet, and in a smaller club those high frequencies add up quickly, to my ear anyway.

meh, i'm rambling and not making too much sense. but yes, i cut my high end so i don't kill anyone's ears, and my low end so it doesn't muck up my sound or get into the subs.

i've NEVER had anyone tell my my tone (clean, distortion, lead, etc) was irritating, and usually i get a lot of comments as to how well it sits in the mix, yet can be heard, etc. it's all about perceived volume to me, not what the knob or slider says.

everyone wants to "cut through" the mix, but remember you're in a band making music. it all has to blend at some point. if everyone was "cutting through" the mix, it'd get very irritating.