Please allow amp parameters to be MIDI controllable!

[GreatGreen]

I think that a real tube amp still has a functional advantage over the Axe-Fx when used live in that you can make super-quick adjustments to the tone controls on a tube amp, whereas with the Axe-Fx, making an adjustment like this requires menu navigation and other button pressing before actually being able to adjust, and you might not have time for something like that in the middle of a song.

However, if the Axe-Fx suddenly allowed every amp sim parameter to be controlled externally, you could setup a system where you have an external device with nothing but knobs that control MIDI parameters, and you could set it up so that you could control the Axe-Fx just as easily and intuitively as any tube amp.

For example, you could use something like the Behringer BCR2000, which has multiple rows of 8 knobs, and assign the knobs of one row to an amp's:

1 Gain
2 Bass
3 Middle
4 Treble
5 Presence
6 Depth
7 Master
8 Level

And now you can control your amp sim just as easily and intuitively as you could with a real amp. No more menu navigation!

 

[Spawn-X]

I think that a real tube amp still has a functional advantage over the Axe-Fx when used live in that you can make super-quick adjustments to the tone controls on a tube amp, whereas with the Axe-Fx, making an adjustment like this requires menu navigation and other button pressing before actually being able to adjust, and you might not have time for something like that in the middle of a song.

However, if the Axe-Fx suddenly allowed every amp sim parameter to be controlled externally, you could setup a system where you have an external device with nothing but knobs that control MIDI parameters, and you could set it up so that you could control the Axe-Fx just as easily and intuitively as any tube amp.

For example, you could use something like the Behringer BCR2000, which has multiple rows of 8 knobs, and assign the knobs of one row to an amp's:

1 Gain
2 Bass
3 Middle
4 Treble
5 Presence
6 Depth
7 Master
8 Level

And now you can control your amp sim just as easily and intuitively as you could with a real amp. No more menu navigation!

You actually can do it via SysEx.

 

[shasha]

You actually can do it via SysEx.

Please elaborate. :lol:

I've got my BCF2000 mounted in my rack and connected to the Axe-FX and currently have 8 modifiers (minus the 2 for expression pedals) at my disposal. It obviously can be done since Axe-Edit talks to it via MIDI.

Any info, links, tips, ideas, hints, and even some berating would be appreciated.

 

[godprobe]

You actually can do it via SysEx.

Please elaborate. :lol:

I've got my BCF2000 mounted in my rack and connected to the Axe-FX and currently have 8 modifiers (minus the 2 for expression pedals) at my disposal. It obviously can be done since Axe-Edit talks to it via MIDI.

Any info, links, tips, ideas, hints, and even some berating would be appreciated.

Unsupported by Fractal. Unsupported by Behringer.
http://home.kpn.nl/~f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html
http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... umentation
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000 ... cretBC.pdf

Drawbacks: it still doesn't *know* that it's controlling an Axe-Fx; the communication is only one-way, so it will not be in sync as you change patches.

 

[shasha]

You actually can do it via SysEx.

Please elaborate. :lol:

I've got my BCF2000 mounted in my rack and connected to the Axe-FX and currently have 8 modifiers (minus the 2 for expression pedals) at my disposal. It obviously can be done since Axe-Edit talks to it via MIDI.

Any info, links, tips, ideas, hints, and even some berating would be appreciated.

Unsupported by Fractal. Unsupported by Behringer.
http://home.kpn.nl/~f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html
http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... umentation
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000 ... cretBC.pdf

Drawbacks: it still doesn't *know* that it's controlling an Axe-Fx; the communication is only one-way, so it will not be in sync as you change patches.

THANK YOU!

I just spent this evening with BCManager so I've gotten a grasp on it. I actually set up the footswitch to select between banks A B and C so that when I use my footcontroller I've got access to each bank. I started reading that BC secrets sheet last night and my eyes glazed over pretty quickly. Code kills me, but I need to get a handle on it sometime I suppose.

Now I've got something to work towards. :mrgreen:

 

[shasha]

Have you done this successfully yourself?


I'm just asking because I'm having a heck of a time getting my BCF2000 to behave properly. Using it as a standalone MIDI to USB adapter it's losing bytes during Axe-FX systex dumps and it seems to be a pretty common issue with LONG sysex messages. I started to 'build' a sysex message based on the wiki, but I ended up missing about 6 bytes which is obviously pretty significant. :lol:

I don't know, looking at the data in MIDI-OX it just seems to be so much more complex than standard MIDI. I don't even know how I'm going to create the faders.

I am not asking anyone to do it for me, I'll beat my head against it if it can be done; I just want to know if I am wasting my time or not.

 

[Dutch]

Anything that isn't directly assignable through ordinary midi CC's provided by Fractal is going to be glitchy. Like when you adjust anything with Axe-Edit while playing, you hear the glitching. That will probably happen on most controlling through sysex. So don't tweak when you're playing live. Or if you want to sound like that... I've read some people got these sysex things to work by monitoring the Axe-Edit output. I think my BCNano won't support that long sysex messages. Don't really need it though.

Anyway. for example the gain parameter in the amp block used to not be assignable to midi because there's so much happening in these algorithms. When the gain parameter changes (with feedback loops and interactions) the Axe can't process that without dropping out. IIRC Cliff inserted a workaround that limits the way the gain works when accessed with midi CC to make it possible. So when accessing with CC it will not sound the same as when using the dial. To make all the abovementioned parameters work will probably be impossible or so complex it will weigh down the processing immensely.

Of course I don't KNOW all of this, just pieced it together from Cliff's comments and experience.

 

[godprobe]

Have you done this successfully yourself?

with my BCR2000, yes -- never tried it on the BCF, but I assume it should operate basically the same

I've never used it as a MIDI interface. And the cabling between it, my Axe-Fx, MIDI-Ox, my MIDI interface (multiple I/O), and Axe-Edit (the older editor, but it shouldn't matter), BC Manager, *and* finding and setting the correct "mode" for the BCR... did take quite a bit of time. And yes, I just manually typed in the SysEx with BC Manager... never dumped it into the BCR direct from the Axe.

The reason I don't use it and didn't pursue it further was because of the lack of sync. Without that, to me, it's more of a novelty than something really useful (especially knowing that the Axe-Fx *does* provide data in return that an intelligent controller could take advantage of [e.g. the Gordius LG, MFC, and Liquid Foot]), and I'd already gotten quite used to adjusting the Axe-Fx from the front panel before then. Also, I wanted to be able to navigate the Axe-Fx Layout grid with the BCR's rotary knobs, and that's impossible.

 

[shasha]

What do you mean by lack of sync? MIDI sync I am assuming. Is this for the feedback for the indicators to reflect correctly when you select a new parameter or is it a sync pulse that keeps everything in time? I think that I read something about that, but with just sysex commands with clearly defined start and stop bytes I didn't realize that would be an issue.

Just putting this out there since you guys seem to be A LOT smarter about this than me. Couldn't you get the feedback by sending a query over all the controls for an effect block? Sort of like what the Axe-Edit does when it gets the sysex dump from the Axe while loading a preset.

Reason I ask is that I envision having a preset on the controller for each effect. I can switch between 32 of them and have a different parameter on each fader. So if I wanted to edit the reverb I would select preset 3, hit a button that queries all the parameters for the reverb block and it would update all the encoders to their current values and I could edit. Go to preset 1 which would be the amp, hit a button to do a query and it loads all those parameters to the encoders. I could switch back to preset 3 and it would have been remembered.

I know that it's going to be a buttload of code, but I figure that once I figure out how to map one parameter properly the only thing that I would have to change would be the effect and parameter ID's. Once I get one working it would move pretty quickly.

 

[godprobe]

What do you mean by lack of sync? [...] Is this for the feedback for the indicators to reflect correctly when you select a new parameter [...]

this.

[...] hit a button that queries all the parameters [...] and it would update all the encoders to their current values [...]

the BCR/BCF isn't that programmable/intelligent. This is impossible.

 

[shasha]

What do you mean by lack of sync? [...] Is this for the feedback for the indicators to reflect correctly when you select a new parameter [...]

this.

[...] hit a button that queries all the parameters [...] and it would update all the encoders to their current values [...]

the BCR/BCF isn't that programmable/intelligent. This is impossible.

Yeah I forgot it wouldn't be sending MIDI CC data back for the encoders, it would be sysex...kind of goes right back to the heart of the issue.

 

[miketheman]

Probably not gonna happen, but it would certainly be another great add-on from Fractal!?

If their soon to be released(?) MFC communicates bi-directionally. It would be even more superior if they later also released a desktop/rackmount controller, that would be in a even more deep synergy with the Axe. Allowing us to do all these things we all dream of, modifying all parameters thru several knobs similar to an ordinary amp faceplate...

/Mike

 

[shasha]

Well after giving up on it the other day I went ahead and decided to look at it with some fresh eyes and managed to get the first control programmed. It was baby steps, but I am pretty sure that I'll be able to program my BCF2000 to edit any parameter I can imagine. Hardest part is going to be coming up with a layout, I've got 8 faders and 8 encoders (and the encoders have 4 groups) and a TON of switches. Not only that, but I've got 32 presets to assign anything to any of those buttons.

So I need to decide if I want to make each preset to control an effect or try to mix effects to maximize parameters. The problem is going to be trying to keep track of what knob or fader controls what parameter. I am also considering making the 8 faders level controls for effect for each preset and then making the encoder knobs the modifiers. That way I could adjust mix levels on the fly.

Only thing that I am kind of lacking right now is to see if I can do a parameter value query for a group of modifiers so that the LEDs and faders match an Axe-FX preset before I start adjusting anything. I think that I could create one button per preset that would have multiple parameter queries and the Axe-FX would send that data to the BCF2000. I know that the BCF2000 will respond to control data, I just don't know if it responds to plain MIDI CC or the values that are assigned to each control.

If not it isn't the end of the world, but it would be cool.

 

[chase]

Probably not gonna happen, but it would certainly be another great add-on from Fractal!?

If their soon to be released(?) MFC communicates bi-directionally. It would be even more superior if they later also released a desktop/rackmount controller, that would be in a even more deep synergy with the Axe. Allowing us to do all these things we all dream of, modifying all parameters thru several knobs similar to an ordinary amp faceplate...

/Mike

I've been asking for that for a while. Breakout box with soft knobs (infinite rotary encoders), buttons, and maybe a small LCD display to tell you what the control assignments are. If done right I would definitely buy one. Cliff might want to consider a THRU function too so it could be daisychained with the MFC. Or maybe the next version of the Axe should just have soft knobs built in...

The need for bidirectional communication is the biggest problem with the perennial request for more remote control.

 

[JWDubois]

Probably not gonna happen, but it would certainly be another great add-on from Fractal!?

If their soon to be released(?) MFC communicates bi-directionally. It would be even more superior if they later also released a desktop/rackmount controller, that would be in a even more deep synergy with the Axe. Allowing us to do all these things we all dream of, modifying all parameters thru several knobs similar to an ordinary amp faceplate...

/Mike

I've been asking for that for a while. Breakout box with soft knobs (infinite rotary encoders), buttons, and maybe a small LCD display to tell you what the control assignments are. If done right I would definitely buy one. Cliff might want to consider a THRU function too so it could be daisychained with the MFC. Or maybe the next version of the Axe should just have soft knobs built in...

The need for bidirectional communication is the biggest problem with the perennial request for more remote control.

Count me in for one of those....

JWW

 

[derker]

Aren't there controllers out on the market today that will handle these types of things?

I looked into the Mackie C4, and it will do it, but I'm pretty sure it has to be connected to a computer, so that's out. Novation makes a neat control surface (Remote Zero) that I think supports the right messages and works in standalone. Havn't had any experience with it but the format is kind of funny, and I would rather have all v-pots than faders.

Regardless, I think a control surface could be an excellent addition to the AxeFX, a tactile controller would make tweaking much much faster, IMO...especially if there wasn't any of the glitchy zipper noises as mentioned earlier.