Pleasantly surprised by... FRFR

H

hoth

Inspired
My journey with the AxeFx has been long. I had a standard for a number of years that I loved and then moved to the KPA recently. Some things about the KPA didn't jive for me so I got the AxeFX II. Although I used headphones extensively with every modeler (including PodHd, 11R and just about every software modeler), I primarily run my modelers through my Mark V's power amp.

I love my Mark V. It has the tone and versatility that I have always dreamed of in an amp. By itself, the Mark V sounds great clean and fully pushed and everything in between. I can't describe how closely I have clung to this amp. Every time I have thought about selling it, I always step off from the brink and keep it.

I had a whole slew of presets with the modelers that I knew exactly how they sounded through the Mark V's power amp and cab. I didn't have much problem dialing things in since I knew what I had to compensate for with this setup. And I always felt secure in the idea that if I didn't like the modeler sound at that moment I could switch to the Mark V and get my favorite distortion.

A number of years ago I tried FRFR. I also (as I said) listen through headphones a lot so thought I knew what FRFR sounded like. A few weeks back I decided to pickup a Yamaha hs80M speaker for a good price just to try FRFR again. I don't gig anymore so the places I am trying to fill with sound are much smaller so a monitor would be a great solution. When I first got the monitor, I tried it with a few simple presets and some of my favorite presets. I was immediately impressed.

At this point, I can't remember exactly what I didn't like about my previous attempts at FRFR. I know through headphones I feel/felt like everything was so hifi and distortions were just not distinguishing themselves enough from each other. The models just didn't translate well for me. By the way, this was my feeling also with the KPA. But maybe with the extra tweaking experience I have had in the last few years, and all the threads and advice from Scott Peterson and Yek, I have been getting an amazing sound from FRFR. I have a much better idea of the effect of cabs on my sound and the various parameters in the AxeFx. The Yamaha is a great canvas and I feel that I can tweak my sound with such control that I can get exactly what I hear in my head. With the Mark V, I am "stuck" with just that sound. Crazy to say.

Playing with different cabs I can hear the difference. Changing advanced parameters I can hear the difference. Blending amps I can hear the difference. Tweaking effects I can hear the difference. Every change I make has a corresponding change in the final sound that I can completely hear coming out of the monitor.

For those fearing FRFR and sticking to amps amplifying the AxeFx like me, I just say try a good FRFR solution and give it a little time. You may be surprised by the results.
 
symphx said:
did you try other frfr speakers, how did u settle on yamaha?
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I had Genelec and Event monitors for a long time which I tried with various modelers. Nothing sounded right through them. Again, I think it is more the experience that I now have in dialing in sounds rather than the quality of the monitors themselves. I settled on the yamaha primarily through the great reviews online and liking what I heard testing it out in the store. At nearly half the price of my Genelecs for a larger diaphragm, it seemed like a steal.
 
hoth said:
I can't describe how closely I have clung to this amp. Every time I have thought about selling it, I always step off from the brink and keep it.
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ha my roadster's been exactly the same lol... get a glorious tone once the ebay camera comes out.

Good post, I'm very interested in FRFR, but with so many solutions, none of which are cheap, the question is where to start.
 
On a somewhat side note... I went to G.C. And jammed on a MKV for 2 hours. I think it is without a doubt the absolute best amp that Boogie has EVER made. You know how they say, "you can't please everyone'? Well for MK series fans I truly believe this amp pleases all. I dialed in one of the nicest clean tones EVER in seconds. This was not possible for me on my IIC+ or MKIII's, especially not without severely compromising my lead channel gain. I think this amp more than serves as a IIC+ reissue. (and the MKIV for that matter too...) It has that classic IIC+ tone, with better switching, better channel setting flexibility, the wattage options, and DUDE!!! That extreme mode!!! Holy Crap!!! We NEED that modeled in the Axe II. That mode is like nothing Boogie has EVER done. I'm gonna wish list that after this. I can totally see myself buying one of these one day if the extreme mode is not modeled in the Axe II.

That is all.


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I owned a mark v for 2 years. Tried to make it work for me. Sold it and the only thing i miss is the cleans. I honestly prefer the sound of my studio pre through my strategy 500 :)
 
Cron said:
I owned a mark v for 2 years. Tried to make it work for me. Sold it and the only thing i miss is the cleans. I honestly prefer the sound of my studio pre through my strategy 500 :)
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I'm not a Mesa guy in general, though I've had a couple, but I have a Studio Pre and the clean sound from that thing is one of the greatest cleans ever. It's very different from Fender clean. It's warm and full-bodied and it doesn't want to overdrive when you smack the front end hard. It's great with pedals, but very different from amps where you're kind of combining the amp gain/drive as you hit the front end with the pedal gain itself. The Studio Pre doesn't add much of its' own distortion as you hit it, so you can set pedal gain higher.
 
So here's an update on my journey...

I knew FRFR would be hard, otherwise everyone would be doing it. But the promise of it was worth trying out. Conceptually it seemed right, but even more, people I respected were making it work for them in amazing ways. To give you a little background, I primarily played my AxeFx through my Mesa Mark V power amp. I have played to small crowds and large crowds (5,000 people in the heart of NYC) and have done much production work. So I am not completely tone deaf and unskilled. But what does that matter when you are trying to find YOUR perfect setup... not much.

So as I said in my last post, I began with a Yamaha HS80M. I got a good deal on it and the main points that it had going for it is that it is cheap, gets good reviews on the net and sounds pretty flat. As soon as I connected it to the Axe Fx, I knew that I was not in Kansas anymore. All of my patches were off - way off. Primarily I had fizz in the top end and a very boomy bass. Mids sounded pretty good but still were not right. In short, it was a hot mess. This makes perfect sense since a guitar cab for the most part attenuates frequencies that were now coming through loud and clear. I spent a week just dialing in a few presets. I really got a good feel for the HS80M as far as what frequencies it was hyping and how to dial in presets generally that sounded pretty good. At this point, I was happy with the results, all the while knowing it could be better, but hearing the promise in FRFR. Every change I made to a patch came through loud and clear, cabs made a differences, and different amp types sounded completely different. In my setup before, different amp types retained their flavor but I cannot say that it really felt like I was playing a completely different amp type. And on top of that, there was a lot of smearing. Just missing frequencies and things just sounding blended together.

A few days ago, I figured that if I can hear so much of the promise in FRFR, but can't get it exactly to where I want, perhaps I needed a better FRFR. I don't often recommend spending extra money on gear unnecessarily because most of the issues we find are user issues. But at this point I had done lots of tweaking, and it just came down to the fact that I was hitting up against something that seemed like a reproduction hurdle, i.e., the AxeFX which I trusted seemed setup right but compensating for one frequency put another out of balance. Also, patches that I used from other users with FRFR setups just sounded wrong. The primary issues were always a strident top end and a boomy bass no matter what I did.

Enter the Adam A8X. This might have been a moment like when Page first plugged into a Plexi or when Hendrix first heard a Marshall. But it was grand. Patches weren't perfect, but they were easily tamed. I just felt like I had so much more control over a patch. It's not that the Adam's sound x% better than the Yamaha's, that's just impossible to say. And the Yamaha's sounded amazing in lots of applications. But as far as translating my thoughts and my patch tweaks to actual sound, the Adams were incredible. The high end is extremely accurate and the bass is punchy when I want or full when I need. What is in my head translates much better to what comes out.

At this point, I have found my rig. Finally I am ready to let my Mark V go off to a new owner. I hope that the fellow who has purchased it appreciates the monster that he is getting. But right now, I am comfortable, no happy, no ecstatic in my sound. I have even sold some beloved pedals of mine as I am so confident in what I am hearing. The Axe FX II does not give me just a single snapshot of a sound that I can use, but the full amps that I love. I am even more convinced of this fact now that I can hear the amps in all of their glory and can tweak them (even minutely) to bring out their best.

This is just one man's experience. I thank everyone who has helped me on this journey. I am happy to answer questions from anyone also walking this path. However, right now, I have some f#$$ing rock to play. Later...
 
I don't hear much talk about Dynaudio, but I have a pair of BM12A's and they rock hard. I've heard a good cross section of monitors and there are some greats out there. I just love my Dynaudio's.....
 
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