Playing around with my Voodoo Valve

Well i was just kinda giving advice on my experience with noise in general for anyone who has a problem with it, as it was the best thing i ever did for my guitars.
If there's some inherent problem with the axe gate i'm not saying otherwise, i just haven't experienced it. Maybe it's cause of the shielding maybe not, but as far as noise in general it was a epiphany for me and a solution to a lot of frustration so i share it.

Jerotas if your guitar is shielded and you still get tons of noise then i would say it's not done right/somethings amif or there is something else wrong in your chain.
Until i got it right the noise was still there and even more noise when it was really wrong somehow but everything seemed right, i tore everything out, rechecked and did it again and again till it finally did work. I didn't shield the pickup cavity at first or the input jack either at that point the noise was greatly reduced, but i thought it could be better, after doing the pickups and input jack cavity it was silent. Basically when the "noise from the guitar" goes away you know you did it right, and then any other noise is another issue.

The crt example i used to prove how well it does work as they do create way more noise but i can now sit right in front of it - and it's dead silent, i get no fizzle from my axefx on note decay at all with high gain.
Regardless i wouldn't get rid of this monitor it is > than any lcd. Sony fw900 pureflat widescreen, one of the best made. They still chose to use them to make the movie 300 on for their image quality and color accuracy. Only drawback is it weighs in at 100 pounds :lol: And i got a backup in the closet if this one dies, lol. I probably love it more than anything i own as they're almost irreplaceable and lcd's look shit to my eyes, i'm picky about image and color quality. So since i gotta look at a monitor everday it's gonna be this if i can help it. I'd hand my axefx over freely before i would let go of these cause when they're gone they're gone.. Everybodys got a weird peeve for somethin guess that's mine.
 
Trem said:
Well i was just kinda giving advice on my experience with noise in general for anyone who has a problem with it, as it was the best thing i ever did for my guitars.
If there's some inherent problem with the axe gate i'm not saying otherwise, i just haven't experienced it. Maybe it's cause of the shielding maybe not, but as far as noise in general it was a epiphany for me and a solution to a lot of frustration so i share it.

Jerotas if your guitar is shielded and you still get tons of noise then i would say it's not done right/somethings amif or there is something else wrong in your chain.
Until i got it right the noise was still there and even more noise when it was really wrong somehow but everything seemed right, i tore everything out, rechecked and did it again and again till it finally did work. I didn't shield the pickup cavity at first or the input jack either at that point the noise was greatly reduced, but i thought it could be better, after doing the pickups and input jack cavity it was silent. Basically when the "noise from the guitar" goes away you know you did it right, and then any other noise is another issue.

Allright, I'll re-check my sheilding - you got me curious. But let's get back on-topic. The clip Joe put up does definitely show that the gate block isn't as good as the Hush stuff at quieting down high gain sounds. Hopefully Cliff could close the gap. Otherwise I might have a Super C in my future even though I don't really have a rack space to spare.
 
That is helpful to people who have noise issues for sure if their guitars aren't shielded or not shielded properly. I have no noise issues with mine any more than would be expected when you crank up the gain. Now my issue isn't "hey i have noise, please help me ect" But if that was the case, your suggestions would be very useful, so i don't want to take away the importance of that, but it's not on topic of what i am trying to point out here in this thread.

My issue is my cheaper, older Voodoo Valve that has a hush noise gate beats out my much more expensive and newer Ultra.

Joe
 
Apples and oranges. Hush is noise reduction, NOT a gate. You are comparing a noise reduction circuit to a gate.
 
Don't know about gates.
What Did catch my attention was that in the axe-fx there are some ampsims that have less noise with higher gain than others. I use the usa lead2 and the xtc and the lead2 is much quieter, noisewise.
Same goes for drive blocks, tube drive is hissy.
 
Dutch said:
Don't know about gates.
What Did catch my attention was that in the axe-fx there are some ampsims that have less noise with higher gain than others. I use the usa lead2 and the xtc and the lead2 is much quieter, noisewise.
Same goes for drive blocks, tube drive is hissy.

That's the same as real life, some amps and pedals are noisier than others.
 
FractalAudio said:
Apples and oranges. Hush is noise reduction, NOT a gate. You are comparing a noise reduction circuit to a gate.

Actually in it's most popular form (Super-C) it has both a gate and the Hush noise reduction system. In that case I guess we should go post at the "wish list" forum for a noise reduction feature.

Yeah after months of racking our brains, this is the only thing I can think of that would really rock to add. You've taken such good care of us!
 
You can create your own noise reducer by putting an envelope controlled lowpass filter at the start of the chain. That's basically what the Hush and other noise reduction systems do (in addition to gating).
 
FractalAudio said:
You can create your own noise reducer by putting an envelope controlled lowpass filter at the start of the chain. That's basically what the Hush and other noise reduction systems do (in addition to gating).

hey cliff what parameter do you attach the envelope to, i'm not to good with setting up these kind of things. Any info would help, thanks
 
FractalAudio said:
You can create your own noise reducer by putting an envelope controlled lowpass filter at the start of the chain. That's basically what the Hush and other noise reduction systems do (in addition to gating).

Yeah this sounds very very interesting. If anyone gets this to work, please post a patch! I'll try it too and post if I come up with anything.
 
rsf1977 said:
hey cliff what parameter do you attach the envelope to, i'm not to good with setting up these kind of things. Any info would help, thanks

Frequency.

The idea is to reduce the frequency as the level drops.
 
FractalAudio said:
rsf1977 said:
hey cliff what parameter do you attach the envelope to, i'm not to good with setting up these kind of things. Any info would help, thanks

Frequency.

The idea is to reduce the frequency as the level drops.

Can't wait to get home and try this, cliff does it again! wow thank you cliff!
 
I just found this info from a forum somewhere, kind of explains the differences between gates & downward expanders pretty well.

There is also a youtube clip of gary hoey demoing the hush pedal and he explains that it is reducing noise from above and below the note being played, would cliffs suggestion only reduce the higher end freaquency hiss but not the low end hum or rumble? I can't try the suggestions until later so i am just thinking out loud here.

I find all this very interesting because a while back i was posting about noise troubles causing me to be unable to produce controlled feedback, i said that at the point where a note on my real amp trails off and begins to feedback, on the axe the noise would take over instead killing that playing experience, i since lowered the gain and upped the volume on my presets and that combined with the difference from the presence update i was able to get the controlled feedback that i was after, but i think with something like this noise reduction method i could crank the gain and get that feedback at much lower volume.

It's amazing how much i've learnt from this little black box!

A noise gate operates on the principle that when accompanied by signal, whatever ongoing noise is mixed in with the signal will be barely noticeable and indeed "masked" by the signal. Once the signal level goes below a certain minimum level, however, the noise becomes very noticeable. Consequently, the circuit completely shuts/blocks the signal from passing through when it goes below a certain preset level, and opens up again (i.e., lets signal flow through) when the signal once again reaches the required threshold.

If there is a huge level difference between the actual noise floor and the "true" signal, and if the signal envelope is just right, this approach works relatively well. Sadly, not everything in life is a mic'd kick drum (where the signal comes and goes in short, high-contrast, bursts), and this approach can be a problem for things like controlling hum from a single-coil guitar for someone who likes to play like Mark Knopfler and has many notes that need to sustain for a while or are lightly picked. A noise gate will either let far too much noise through in this instance, or if you set it to eliminate the noise, it will chop off the beginnings and tails of notes in an irritating way.

This leads to a slightly improved approach, which is what's officially called "downward expansion". This is, in a way this complete opposite of what a limiter does. Where a limiter works to *reduce* any volume differences between signals above a certain level (i.e., the dynamics of everything UP TO that level are not affected; only what is above that level), an expander works to *exaggerate* volume differences of everything below a certain level. So, it doesn't really shut anything off or on, but as the signal level subsides at the end of a note, and the note+noise goes below a certain threshold, the circuit makes it sound MUCH lower than it is, and the extent to which it exaggerates the volume drop increases as you go even lower. This manages to preserve the start and end of softer passages a bit better than a gate, though it still isn't perfect.

A third strategy is a "noise filter". This operates on the premise that the irritating noise accumulated in the signal path is going to be primarily hiss. Liek a noise gate, whent he signal level is high enough, you don't really "hear" the hiss, but as the signal level drops, the hiss becomes more irritating. To combat the hiss, but retain the signal dynamics and not forfeit the onset and tail of the notes, a noise filter uses a variation of an "autowah" circuit to trim the upper treble off as the note decays. So, it applies a treble rolloff during softer passages to make the hiss less noticeable.

More complex versions of this combine the one-two punch of a downward expander and a noise filter to both downplay the parts where the "signal" consists primarily of diverse noise sources, and turn the treble down. This is actually a bit better, since the noise can be both hum AND hiss. The noise filter is fine for rolling off hiss, but since it starts from the top of the frequency spectrum, it does nothing for the hum way down in the lower regions of the spectrum. The expander/filter combo helps to attack all sources of unwanted noise throughout the spectrum.
 
Great info here in this thread since my last post that is for sure, and thanks to Cliff for chiming in. I am able to dial in something very similar using an envelope and Gate in the Layout page. So that is nice the more i tweaked it the better it seems to get!!!!!


Joe
 
senseix said:
Great info here in this thread since my last post that is for sure, and thanks to Cliff for chiming in. I am able to dial in something very similar using an envelope and Gate in the Layout page. So that is nice the more i tweaked it the better it seems to get!!!!!


Joe


So problem solved?
 
rickgk said:
senseix said:
Great info here in this thread since my last post that is for sure, and thanks to Cliff for chiming in. I am able to dial in something very similar using an envelope and Gate in the Layout page. So that is nice the more i tweaked it the better it seems to get!!!!!


Joe


So problem solved?


After messing with it, it's still a bit more touchy than the Hush in the voodoo is so i'm hoping to find out what can be done to make it more solid after it closes off the noise. So i'll scratch this setup and hope to figure out one that mimic's the Hush/isp.

Joe
 
I don't understand why it's suggested that the envelope filter be the first block in the chain when products like the hush or decimator recommend placement after drive pedals, preamps or both?
 
Re:

rickgk said:
I don't understand why it's suggested that the envelope filter be the first block in the chain when products like the hush or decimator recommend placement after drive pedals, preamps or both?

Because the physical devices are prone to being noisy.
Dealing with the Axe-Fx, almost any noise is picked up at the input (= at the guitar).
 
Re: Re:

Sebastian said:
rickgk said:
I don't understand why it's suggested that the envelope filter be the first block in the chain when products like the hush or decimator recommend placement after drive pedals, preamps or both?

Because the physical devices are prone to being noisy.
Dealing with the Axe-Fx, almost any noise is picked up at the input (= at the guitar).

Of course, that makes perfect sense, I'm stupid.
 
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