Placing FRFR wedges on the floor...

Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
Guys,

What are your experiences with using CLRs, Xitone wedges (or any other decent, wood-based enclosure wedges) placed on the floor?

Plastic Alto TS212 (which is in fact not a bad speaker at all) is so much different sounding when elevated, that I'm considering keeping it on the stand (or maybe amp / combo stand) for rehearsals / gigs. No more floor wedge operation for me - boomy, ass ugly sound, EQ-ing which seems to be completely awkward process :(

Do good FRFR wedges also sound completely different / better, when raised? Xitones don't have pole-mount option, AFAIK, so I suppose this is not an issue at all. CLRs? Friedmans? Any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks!
 
My QSCk12 I preferred standing upright. I recently acquired a CLR and have been getting used to it, and i'm finding I prefer it to be upright as well. Some speakers have different settings depending on your use... as you get off the ground the low end will drop, so you'll have to adjust.
 
The RCF NX12SMA has a switch to provide EQ compensation when dealing with contact coupling with the floor vs without. You'll probably want a little EQ adjustment available if you swap between floor and stand use.
 
I prefer to trust my ears, of course, and little bit of adjustment would be ok. But Altos are booming huge amount of bottom end when placed on the floor, which is just.. I don't know - false?

Let's approach it like that - if I'd buy a carefully dialed in pack of presets for FRFR, (professionally done to mimic the real amp/stack/combo setup), the last thing I'd like to be doing would be guessing and trying to dial out anything out of it.

I know some cab makers offer option to tame bottom end in specific position - and I believe they know exactly which frequecies and by how much need to be removed - but Alto doesn't have it. Not sure if Xitone wedges have it, so in the one and only correct position I assume they have just about right amount of low frequencies.

Am I right?
 
Do good FRFR wedges also sound completely different / better, when raised? Xitones don't have pole-mount option, AFAIK, so I suppose this is not an issue at all. CLRs? Friedmans? Any thoughts on the matter?
I don't have experience with the Alto or Xitone, but the CLR has a DSP switch to select between wedge, backline, and pole-mount positioning. The few times where I've used it as a proper wedge monitor, it sounded fine.

Before switching to IEM, I used one CLR mostly as backline, elevated off the ground. It sounds good in any position, but it depends on what you want to accomplish. Elevated, it does well for stage fill. As a wedge, it's mostly a sweet spot for you and the musician next to you. But as far as boominess goes, it has none of that.
 
I prefer to trust my ears, of course, and little bit of adjustment would be ok. But Altos are booming huge amount of bottom end when placed on the floor, which is just.. I don't know - false?

Let's approach it like that - if I'd buy a carefully dialed in pack of presets for FRFR, (professionally done to mimic the real amp/stack/combo setup), the last thing I'd like to be doing would be guessing and trying to dial out anything out of it.

I know some cab makers offer option to tame bottom end in specific position - and I believe they know exactly which frequecies and by how much need to be removed - but Alto doesn't have it. Not sure if Xitone wedges have it, so in the one and only correct position I assume they have just about right amount of low frequencies.

Am I right?

I had an Alto and it did have a huge low end boom. I ended up getting a Yamaha DXR10 and it still has some low end boom when it's on the floor as a wedge. There's also a couple of low cut settings to help this out. However, if I elevate it off the floor a few inches using an amp stand I can set it for no low cut and it works great. I wonder if some type of foam padding or similar would work to cut some of the floor boom.
 
Thank you, guys. I like placing this kind of cabs on the floor without wondering whether this is wrong / right, or how it would affect the tone, whatever...

I'm so tempted to pull the trigger on passive Xitone wedge, but I'm in the EU :(

Even with taxes and custom fees it would be still about the same price as passive Matrix wedge though... Arrgh, choices, choices... ;)
 
I use my two CLR's as wedges. I have a vocal split, guitar split and a mono aux from the desk with a band mix all running through two CLR's in wedge position.
 
I have my CLRs stacked on a small table as a sidefill blasting across the stage. In the rehearsal studio I place them left/right on stands. Both placements work great. I couldn´t bond with having one in front of me on the floor.
 
I had an Alto and it did have a huge low end boom. I ended up getting a Yamaha DXR10 and it still has some low end boom when it's on the floor as a wedge. There's also a couple of low cut settings to help this out. However, if I elevate it off the floor a few inches using an amp stand I can set it for no low cut and it works great. I wonder if some type of foam padding or similar would work to cut some of the floor boom.

@Bman - Are you happy with the DXR10 as a wedge w low cut? I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the DXR10
 
I am/was happy with it. I bought it used and the fan stopped working. So I brought it into a repair shop that does Yamaha warranty work. The fix was a PCB board replacement, so the guy, who was a one man shop, had to order the PC board and front the money to get repaid by Yamaha for the warranty work. Long story ..not so short, I guess: It's been in the repair shop for just about a month and I just got a call today that it's ready. No charge.

In the meantime I got a case of GAS and ordered a Xitone.

Back to your question - It works great for a wedge with a low cut. There's actually two options for the low cut. 100k & 120k. I had it on a wood floor in my house as a wedge and cut it at 100 to take the boom out of it. Also, cut the cab blocks, but I do that for the cabs. When I elevated it on a crate about a foot off the floor still in a wedge position I didn't need to cut. And man it's freaking LOUD!!! I'll pick it up Monday or Tuesday and get more time with it while I'm waiting for the Xitone. Then I plan on selling it unless it beats out the Xitone, which cost double what I paid for the DXR. For the money the DXR is really solid. To my ears it was night and day vs. the Alto. I bought the Alto about a week after purchasing the AX8 and I was seriously bummed with what I heard right out of the box. I got something decent after heavily cutting the lows and highs and boosting some mid. But the DXR tone was immediate and all of the factory presets put a smile on my face.
 
any speaker you place on the floor will sound different due to coupling.
This.

Putting any speaker against a floor or any other reflective surface will boost the low end. Some speakers have built-in EQ Settings to compensate for this. They work with varying degrees of effectiveness.
 
Would placing a spongelike material underneath it help tame this? Something like what's used for soundproofing walls?
 
Would placing a spongelike material underneath it help tame this? Something like what's used for soundproofing walls?
That would help, but not a lot. You'd still have a reflective surface right next to it.
 
So, if you set a wedge type speaker upright, like a cab (not angled) on the floor would you eliminate some of the bass boom? I'm guessing that because the back of the cab is directed parallel with the floor this would have an effect. Of course you wouldn't get the sound direction in your face/ears but what I'm reading here is the FRFR speaker types have a larger radial range of sound dispersion that sounds more on axis. So placing it further away like a backline the 'cone' of sound would reach your ears in a more accurate way than a traditional amp that hits your knees and you're hearing the off axis tone which isn't as shrill.

I guess I'm wondering why some elevate their FRFR speakers with stands, but the Missions and Friedmans are typically placed on the floor. Are those two examples built with a tilt angle within the cab?
 
So, if you set a wedge type speaker upright, like a cab (not angled) on the floor would you eliminate some of the bass boom?
Nope.


...what I'm reading here is the FRFR speaker types have a larger radial range of sound dispersion that sounds more on axis. So placing it further away like a backline the 'cone' of sound would reach your ears in a more accurate way than a traditional amp that hits your knees and you're hearing the off axis tone which isn't as shrill.
In general, FRFR speakers have a wider angle of uniform frequency response. CLRs have the widest angle I'm familiar with; they're speced at 90°. That means if you go beyond 45° off axis, you'll hear a significant loss of highs.


I guess I'm wondering why some elevate their FRFR speakers with stands, but the Missions and Friedmans are typically placed on the floor.
The Missions and Friedmans you're talking about are designed to look like traditional guitar cabs. It's an aesthetic thing. And you don't see traditional amps mounted on poles; you see them on the stage floor. Also, in a lot of venues, elevated speakers aren't practical.[/QUOTE]
 
I am/was happy with it. I bought it used and the fan stopped working. So I brought it into a repair shop that does Yamaha warranty work. The fix was a PCB board replacement, so the guy, who was a one man shop, had to order the PC board and front the money to get repaid by Yamaha for the warranty work. Long story ..not so short, I guess: It's been in the repair shop for just about a month and I just got a call today that it's ready. No charge.

In the meantime I got a case of GAS and ordered a Xitone.

Back to your question - It works great for a wedge with a low cut. There's actually two options for the low cut. 100k & 120k. I had it on a wood floor in my house as a wedge and cut it at 100 to take the boom out of it. Also, cut the cab blocks, but I do that for the cabs. When I elevated it on a crate about a foot off the floor still in a wedge position I didn't need to cut. And man it's freaking LOUD!!! I'll pick it up Monday or Tuesday and get more time with it while I'm waiting for the Xitone. Then I plan on selling it unless it beats out the Xitone, which cost double what I paid for the DXR. For the money the DXR is really solid. To my ears it was night and day vs. the Alto. I bought the Alto about a week after purchasing the AX8 and I was seriously bummed with what I heard right out of the box. I got something decent after heavily cutting the lows and highs and boosting some mid. But the DXR tone was immediate and all of the factory presets put a smile on my face.

Thanks for the reply. How long is your wait on the Xitone? I'd be interested in your side by side comparison. I'm not playing out much now, so the DXR looks like a good yet cost effective option. I use studio monitors in the house.
 
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