Pitch Block...

Whookam

Whookam

New Member
Is this ever going to be addressed in an update or will I continue to have to carry a Digi drop on my short board? The latency makes it unusable in most situations... Yes I've tried the work around, nothing works as well for me as the digi drop... I'm only dropping a half step...
 
+1, hate needing an external pitch shifter.

I'd be perfectly happy with a high-CPU pitch block that works and I'd accept crazy limitations in terms of not being able to use other effects. Heck, I can always add an external chorus pedal if needed. Oh wait...
 
I figured the CPU, but was hoping maybe there was a way to dedicate more power to it so I didn't have to bring out Digi for every gig when the AX8 has the ability to drop... I would give up space for other stuff to have this ability, it makes 99% percent of my night easier so this is really a just a small complaint. I also recognize most posters here do not play out on the regular and don't understand how nights flow when gigging... Bringing a flat guitar and changing to that guitar as quickly as my singer changes his mind would make my night horrendous. We fly by the seat of our pants and play everything in the key of the recorded version... Thanks for the input, love the AX8 for all it does well....
 
vinnyburns said:
So unhelpful.
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Okay, what would be helpful?

Should I learn to code, and write a new firmware that includes each and every proprietary algorithm for any given product on the market ?

Would that be helpful enough for you?

There fact is that there isn’t anything a forum member can do to address what is a software/hardware limitation in the gear, aside from those who actually produced the gear.

Only solutions to date, if the OP isn’t happy with the current state of things and tried all the suggestions is to either keep using the dedicated pedal, OR tune down.


How exactly did you help by the way ?
 
Whookam said:
I figured the CPU, but was hoping maybe there was a way to dedicate more power to it so I didn't have to bring out Digi for every gig when the AX8 has the ability to drop... I would give up space for other stuff to have this ability, it makes 99% percent of my night easier so this is really a just a small complaint. I also recognize most posters here do not play out on the regular and don't understand how nights flow when gigging... Bringing a flat guitar and changing to that guitar as quickly as my singer changes his mind would make my night horrendous. We fly by the seat of our pants and play everything in the key of the recorded version... Thanks for the input, love the AX8 for all it does well....
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I think a good majority of posters here either do play out, or have played out in the past, so they do understand issues of gigging musicians.

I don’t think flying by the seat of one’s pants is always the best method either. I typically would want to have a few possible song choices, as some spontaneous moments are good, but when one member, such as a singer, randomly makes on the fly choices I think it hurts as much as helps.

If your singer can’t be bothered to understand the overall performance can be improved by communicating and understanding his bandmates needs, then I don’t see how anyone can really give their best performances.

Not giving people 30 seconds to change a guitar, change settings etc, is as bad if the dude randomly walks off for a drink or smoke without telling anyone.

Communicate. Explain that if you change to a different guitar, you can best play a given number of songs, and then if you switch back, you can have an additional number of songs.

Discuss with other members which numbers they feel flow best into others, work on building up tempo and then slowing it back down. Audiences typically respond best to some highs and lows, too many fast rockers in a row losses the effect in many cases, just as too many ballads in a row makes everyone migrate away from the stage. Need to space them out a little, give the crowd time to catch their breath so to speak.

There are no rules of course, but being on the same page as a band is pretty important. I for one wouldn’t want to feel I need to be ready for anything singer wants, but i equally wouldn’t expect to change guitars every song, make people wait on me too much either. Dont want to be a diva guitar player, nor have a diva of a singer who views the rest of the band as “their” backup. Been there, done that, not fun. Once they start calling it their band, it’s usually downhill lol.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I don’t think flying by the seat of one’s pants is always the best method either. I typically would want to have a few possible song choices, as some spontaneous moments are good, but when one member, such as a singer, randomly makes on the fly choices I think it hurts as much as helps.

If your singer can’t be bothered to understand the overall performance can be improved by communicating and understanding his bandmates needs, then I don’t see how anyone can really give their best performances.
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I don't necessarily play out and gig all that often, but even I know that doing things spontaneous and without the rest of the band's input can be detrimental to the flow of a gig.

I think I've read/heard that if you have songs that are in different tunings, try to play the songs using the same tunings in groups so you can keep guitar changes to a minimum. I understand that that's not always possible, but any little thing that can make it easier for the band would help.

Discuss with other members which numbers they feel flow best into others, work on building up tempo and then slowing it back down. Audiences typically respond best to some highs and lows, too many fast rockers in a row losses the effect in many cases, just as too many ballads in a row makes everyone migrate away from the stage. Need to space them out a little, give the crowd time to catch their breath so to speak.
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Pretty sure I've read studies done saying that there's a specific way to structure a setlist to make it flow in the best way possible, and that most big name bands have every aspect of their show nailed down, from where every band member is standing at any given moment to the "spontaneous" parts of the show...none of it's spontaneous, and everything is planned.
 
r3vo1ution1991 said:
Pretty sure I've read studies done saying that there's a specific way to structure a setlist to make it flow in the best way possible, and that most big name bands have every aspect of their show nailed down, from where every band member is standing at any given moment to the "spontaneous" parts of the show...none of it's spontaneous, and everything is planned.
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There was a link in another thread a few days ago about this. Some good ideas in there (also read the other articles that are linked off of this one), of course some will be more or less applicable depending on what kind of music you play and who your audience is... #34
 
As to the OPs question...

I have to think's a matter of will. Cliff has made a point in the past of belittling the processing power in the Kemper, and with the AxeFX3 now on the market, the difference should now be even more dramatic. Yet, the KPA pitch shifter is head and shoulders above anything FAS for Line6 have managed to put out. The limitation is NOT processing power.

lqdsnddist said:
There fact is that there isn’t anything a forum member can do to address what is a software/hardware limitation
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Sure there is... the OP posted this pitch shifter question and created this thread. Hopefully this additional vote can help steer priorities at FAS.
 
Whookam said:
I figured the CPU, but was hoping maybe there was a way to dedicate more power to it so I didn't have to bring out Digi for every gig when the AX8 has the ability to drop... I would give up space for other stuff to have this ability, it makes 99% percent of my night easier so this is really a just a small complaint. I also recognize most posters here do not play out on the regular and don't understand how nights flow when gigging... Bringing a flat guitar and changing to that guitar as quickly as my singer changes his mind would make my night horrendous. We fly by the seat of our pants and play everything in the key of the recorded version... Thanks for the input, love the AX8 for all it does well....
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One conclusion that should be drawn once being around the forum for any length of time is Fractal's commitment to squeezing everything they can into a product and not holding back on power or quality. Fractal is constantly working on improving their products and making those improvements available once they figure them out.

As with anything that's going to be an "all-in-one" type product compromises must be made, both in the creation and manufacturing as well as its operation by the consumer. It's simply unreasonable to expect every effect in a multi-effects processor, no matter how good, to operate the same as the dedicated, stand-alone pedal in all potential uses.

Some effects, like the Pitch block, do require more "power", or probably better said, more CPU headroom. One thing that should be remembered is that modulation and time based effects increase CPU use when a signal is being processed which is why the "limit" when creating a preset is @ 85%.

The Axe Fx Wiki addresses this:

Pitch and CPU usage
"Once the CPU usage crosses a certain threshold (which could happen if you are streaming audio) the pitch detection will slow down as the global pitch detector necessarily has a lower priority than the primary audio processing. If you change the Pitch Source to Local then the local pitch detector runs at the same priority as the audio."

"Pitch detection has a lower priority than audio processing. If CPU usage is very high the pitch detectors won't run often".

The Pitch block in the AX8 and FX8 is very sensitive to CPU load, even far before the limit is reached. When using the Whammy mode for example, try to keep CPU usage below 60%. Some Pitch types in the AX8 and FX8 provide an Economy mode, which offers comparable audio performance but uses less CPU.
 
benvigil said:
As to the OPs question...

I have to think's a matter of will. Cliff has made a point in the past of belittling the processing power in the Kemper, and with the AxeFX3 now on the market, the difference should now be even more dramatic. Yet, the KPA pitch shifter is head and shoulders above anything FAS for Line6 have managed to put out. The limitation is NOT processing power.


Sure there is... the OP posted this pitch shifter question and created this thread. Hopefully this additional vote can help steer priorities at FAS.
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Come on now....You really believe Cliff is lying about this? That is exactly what your post says.............
 
Stratman68 said:
Come on now....You really believe Cliff is lying about this? That is exactly what your post says.............
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Dude, what are you even talking about? Where in the world did you see that I wrote, or even implied, that Cliff was lying?

The AxeFX has WAY WAY WAY more CPU power than the KPA. Nobody disputes that. He's right. He's always been right about that. Yet the KPA pitch FX are still better.

You do the math.
 
I find the pitch shift block on the AX8 works better when you use it to tune up a half step rather than down i.e. tune the guitar to Eb and shift up to E. I'm assuming this is because algorithmically it is a simpler and cleaner operation to go to a smaller (i.e. higher pitch) waveform than to expand to a larger (i.e. lower pitch) waveform -- somewhat analogous to shrinking vs. enlarging an image. I have a Drop on my board and find the AX8 performs better in terms of both latency and quality when going from Eb to E vs. E to Eb with the Drop. I know I'm using one of the whammy modes and just played around with the params until I got the latency, quality, and CPU hit at a decent compromise. Still not the same as a second guitar but it's more than adequate for a few songs live in front of a typical audience.
 
benvigil said:
Dude, what are you even talking about? Where in the world did you see that I wrote, or even implied, that Cliff was lying?

The AxeFX has WAY WAY WAY more CPU power than the KPA. Nobody disputes that. He's right. He's always been right about that. Yet the KPA pitch FX are still better.

You do the math.
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I tried searching for info on the CPU power of the Kemper and I can't find anything. Fractal lists the CPU info on the website, but I can't find anything on Kemper, so I'm not sure where you hear that the AxeFX has "WAY WAY WAY more CPU power than the KPA."

Also, the KPA has the same issues with their pitch shifter as Fractal does, so idk if you can definitively say the KPA pitch shifter is better:
 
It’s not only about CPU power, it’s about the algorithms

Does the Drop, or the FreqOut, or anything Digitech makes have more processing power than an Axe III?

Of course not, they are simple little pedals, but, they have a specific algorithm written to allow them to do one thing, and one thing only.

How much work would it be to “crack” it though? It’s rather unrealistic to think that any and all hardware, past and preset, can be included in the Axe

I think the shifting on my III works great, for my needs, but if someone disagrees, it’s easy to still plug in a pedal. Heck, I still use the FreqOut pedal. Haven’t found anything that works better for my taste.

Given some of the attitudes that often pop up in threads like this, if I was Cliff, and even if I had a new block in process, I’d probably just trash it as a matter of principle and go tell you all to just turn down lol.

Mind you I’m not picking on the OP here, but what always seems to happen is these threads turn into “I want, I want, there is No reason why I shouldn’t haven’t it because _______”.

Look at what any Klon thread turns into....

Maybe the ‘reason’ is Cliff just doesn’t want to do it, and everyone is free to take it or leave it, but the more people complain the less likely it’s ever going to happen is.
 
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