Pickslanting ?

Jimmytwotimes

Jimmytwotimes

Experienced
Anyone try using the Troy Grady pickslanting technique ? Anyone have the night and day difference in your playing ?
I have been watching his videos for the last week basically because I'm a Andy Wood fan and I heard him talk about Troy.
I have to say its not working for me yet - In theory, I get that slanting the pick a certain way help you avoid getting hung up on the next string when doing fast runs.
But its really hard for me to watch a video and get the technique or why i'm doing it wrong - its like I need that person right in front of me to say, you're doing it wrong because of "this". If anything - trying this out has made me examine what my right hand is doing.
Anyway - just curious if anyone has had any success with this.
 
I always have the pick slanted, and spent a little time recently trying to flatten it out... to no avail. I’ll have to look into this. Maybe I am better off than I think I am.
 
I've been practicing it for quite a while. I think it's the only way to achieve high speed string crossing. Pulling your pick up and over strings works ok at lower speeds, but just won't work at high speed. Or at least it's not as efficient. So, IMHO pick slanting really is the best way to cross strings.

I think there are two ways to use pick slanting for high speed passages. One is you choose a slant direction and then you only play patterns that work with that slant direction. Yngwie is an example of a guitarist who does that. The other way is to adjust your slant direction while you play to suit the pattern you're playing. Paul Gilbert plays this way.

I find it difficult to improvise using the Paul Gilbert technique. It requires some quick thinking (for me at least) to figure out which direction I should be slanting for a particular pattern when I'm improvising. On the other hand, if you're playing a rehearsed phrase, you can work out the slant direction in advance, so it's easier to use for cases like that.

Even you don't end up using the technique, I highly recommend the Troy Grady videos.
 
Imho, there's a balance between having the pick too slanted as it will sacrifice pick attack and not enough slant to facilitate quick fluid picking. As you get more comfortable adjusting the pick and the slant on the fly to that "sweet spot" for you...it well then be almost automatic.
 
I recently discovered the Troy videos, I'm a very average speed player I'd say.

I watched his Yngwie one, and it absolutely, massively changed my speed in a week - sounds too much, but it really did work.

Made me (once again, for about the 100th time this week) - wish I was 18 again!
 
peteri said:
I recently discovered the Troy videos, I'm a very average speed player I'd say.

I watched his Yngwie one, and it absolutely, massively changed my speed in a week - sounds too much, but it really did work.

Made me (once again, for about the 100th time this week) - wish I was 18 again!
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interesting and awesome for you !
I have watched probably 10 of his videos - some are waaay too much info and analysis. I have typically played on top of the strings i think.
When i watch Troy and EJ and YJM and Andy - it just looks like its natural to them, like they dont even think about it.
And it looks like my hand is in the same position - I can't slant the pick up any more than I'm doing - and I'm still getting caught on the strings.
This seems to happen only when I'm descending. i have to think that my wrist is just not on the right plane of motion..
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I'm a paying member over at Troy Gradys site. I use it for the crosspicking and bluegrass stuff though, not the regular pick slanting.

Anyway, you shouldn't have to think about your slant when at speed. You need to program the slant into your playing at a more moderate speed. When playing fast, you don't have time to think about individual notes. It's more about patterns, feel and "chunks".
 
I do know what you mean, some of his excellent videos can have too much information - for me, it was about finding one of the exercises which worked for me in the Yngwie section and building from there - you don't need to watch it all at once.

I struggle to get the degree of downward slant he does but it works for me!
 
peteri said:
I do know what you mean, some of his excellent videos can have too much information - for me, it was about finding one of the exercises which worked for me in the Yngwie section and building from there - you don't need to watch it all at once.

I struggle to get the degree of downward slant he does but it works for me!
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I will go back and watch the Yngwie video and see what i can take from that.
I also printed all the free exercises and we'll see where that gets me.
I really think I have to change the my wrist is moving - thats going to take some time I think.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
I'm a paying member over at Troy Gradys site. I use it for the crosspicking and bluegrass stuff though, not the regular pick slanting.

Anyway, you shouldn't have to think about your slant when at speed. You need to program the slant into your playing at a more moderate speed. When playing fast, you don't have time to think about individual notes. It's more about patterns, feel and "chunks".
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I definitely need to practice it slower - I'm kind of trying the whole bursting thing - but I think i need to practice it slowed way down for my body to get used it. thanks man.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
I definitely need to practice it slower - I'm kind of trying the whole bursting thing - but I think i need to practice it slowed way down for my body to get used it. thanks man.
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Yeah, I think of different tempos serving different purposes in trying to program one's hands. Slow is for getting the basics compents right . Fast is for checking that it works up to speed. Mid tempo is for burning it into your muscle memory (aka TV mode). I suggest switching between all 3 without a metronome. Start fast, make the motion as effortless as possible, then gradually slow it down until it is as fast as you can play it cleanly with just occasional hickups. Then, slow it down even further and really exaggerate the movements. Be super conscious about what your hands are doing and the feel of it. Really try and focus of the feel of it when you're getting it right. Because when going fast, the feel of the movement as whole is all you have, since it's to fast for your brain to focus on every individual note and the all very minute movements and muscles working together to create the technique in question.

You can also do the opposite, start slow and then go faster and faster, with previous princeples in mind. Again, no metronome.

I'm a big believer in that using a metronome,and gradually increasing the tempo, only works when you have the technique under your fingers and can do it effortlessly at at least a moderate tempo. The classic way to always practice with a metronome and start super slow doesn't work most of the time. It's just a sure fire way to develop bad technique that doesn't work at fast tempos. You will then often end up trying to brute force it at higher tempos, not being able to do it consistently, or for very long. In the end, you'll most likely hit a speed ceiling that you just can't get over, no matter what. Worst case scenario, you will hurt yourself trying force it. It's like working out at the gym: Good form and absence of (bad) tension is everything.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Yeah, I think of different tempos serving different purposes in trying to program one's hands. Slow is for getting the basics compents right . Fast is for checking that it works up to speed. Mid tempo is for burning it into your muscle memory (aka TV mode). I suggest switching between all 3 without a metronome. Start fast, make the motion as effortless as possible, then gradually slow it down until it is as fast as you can play it cleanly with just occasional hickups. Then, slow it down even further and really exaggerate the movements. Be super conscious about what your hands are doing and the feel of it. Really try and focus of the feel of it when you're getting it right. Because when going fast, the feel of the movement as whole is all you have, since it's to fast for your brain to focus on every individual note and the all very minute movements and muscles working together to create the technique in question.

You can also do the opposite, start slow and then go faster and faster, with previous princeples in mind. Again, no metronome.

I'm a big believer in that using a metronome,and gradually increasing the tempo, only works when you have the technique under your fingers and can do it effortlessly at at least a moderate tempo. The classic way to always practice with a metronome and start super slow doesn't work most of the time. It's just a sure fire way to develop bad technique that doesn't work at fast tempos. You will then often end up trying to brute force it at higher tempos, not being able to do it consistently, or for very long. In the end, you'll most likely hit a speed ceiling that you just can't get over, no matter what. Worst case scenario, you will hurt yourself trying force it. It's like working out at the gym: Good form and absence of (bad) tension is everything.
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Like the saying goes, practice does not make perfect - PERFECT practice makes perfect.
All good bits of advice here - thanks again!
 
The difficulty I have is as follows:
I can play comfortably with an upward pickslant: My heel (the heel of my hand, obviously) is anchored on the thicker strings, muting them.

But when I try to change the slant to downward, the whole thing falls to pieces. I have to pick my wrist up high in an arch over the strings, which leaves me less anchored. As a result, my pick-tip motion flails wildly in figure-8 loops; and the heel of my hand is no longer resting on the thicker strings, so they're unmuted.

Fortunately there are plenty of cool riffs based on an upward pick-slant. There are also plenty of ways to modify a riff requiring downward pick-slanting (e.g., where the preceding escape-stroke is an upstroke) into a combination of upward pickslanting and hammer-on/pull-off.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work. So I keep going back to Troy Grady et alia.
 
Pick slanting sometimes works for me, but only with fairly sharp picks like the Dunlop Jazz. I’ve never liked the tone I get with this technique, however. My natural picking style is more like that of George Benson and Adam Rogers, and I generally don’t run into situations where I get tripped up with fast passages.
 
I feel like this is just something that I have done naturally. When I saw the videos, I didn't even know that it was a thing. I didn't even notice that I was doing this until he pointed it out. It explains perfectly why all my picks look like they do. I do believe in the idea of over-reaching. It is the same principle that is used in weight/strength training. Sometimes you have to try to go beyond your abilities to find out what your weakness is instead of sticking to perfect practice. For me pickslanting is a compensation for short falls in technical ability that allows someone to reach beyond their ability. The same thing applies to weight lifting. Our body naturally compensates for our shortcomings. We make up for our weakness with our strenghts.
 
Slanting is only a very, very small part of the puzzle. Most people (myself included) don't have sufficient hand synchronization to play very fast. And there's no quick and easy technique to build that up unfortunately.
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
The difficulty I have is as follows:
I can play comfortably with an upward pickslant: My heel (the heel of my hand, obviously) is anchored on the thicker strings, muting them.

But when I try to change the slant to downward, the whole thing falls to pieces. I have to pick my wrist up high in an arch over the strings, which leaves me less anchored. As a result, my pick-tip motion flails wildly in figure-8 loops; and the heel of my hand is no longer resting on the thicker strings, so they're unmuted.

Fortunately there are plenty of cool riffs based on an upward pick-slant. There are also plenty of ways to modify a riff requiring downward pick-slanting (e.g., where the preceding escape-stroke is an upstroke) into a combination of upward pickslanting and hammer-on/pull-off.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work. So I keep going back to Troy Grady et alia.
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That's kind of interesting, since upward pickslanting is generally harder for muting. I think you might be overdoing the downward slant by your description. Try and rest the whole pinky side of your hand against the strings. High e string sitting just before the pinky finger begins. That way, you should be able to mute all the strings and still have a downward slant. This position is the one I use for playing on the top strings while muting. For playing the wound strings with a downward mute, I move the whole underarm in the direction of my elbow. Basically sliding the arm over the cut away of on the body of the guitar. If anything is unclear, I might be able to take some pictures.

The tricky part is when doing an upward slant, muting the high strings is a b*tch.
 
Troys work made a big impact in my playing. It’s not just about slanting in my opinion. What I really learned from him is how to get really forensic about analyzing what my pick hand is doing. This has helped me iron out some of my hiccups. also If you really watch a lot of his in depth stuff he’s not really advocating extreme slanting.. only enough to get the job done, and on some types of riffs he goes from down slant to up and alternates.. the two way pick slant ala paul gilbert and Steve vai.

So my take away is if you have a specific problem you are trying to solve, watching this stuff will likely help you or at least inspire you to figure out how to get past it and move on. I had literally been stuck on one problem for like 15 years and basically given up before.
 
Dr. Dipwad said:
The difficulty I have is as follows:
I can play comfortably with an upward pickslant: My heel (the heel of my hand, obviously) is anchored on the thicker strings, muting them.

But when I try to change the slant to downward, the whole thing falls to pieces. I have to pick my wrist up high in an arch over the strings, which leaves me less anchored. As a result, my pick-tip motion flails wildly in figure-8 loops; and the heel of my hand is no longer resting on the thicker strings, so they're unmuted.

Fortunately there are plenty of cool riffs based on an upward pick-slant. There are also plenty of ways to modify a riff requiring downward pick-slanting (e.g., where the preceding escape-stroke is an upstroke) into a combination of upward pickslanting and hammer-on/pull-off.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work. So I keep going back to Troy Grady et alia.
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Plenty of great players use a dominant upward slant. I wouldnt fight it but ideally you would be somewhat proficient at downward so you can at least squeeze a single down slant note in occasionally for two way passages.
 
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