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trancegodz

Power User
I’d like to be able to set the Axe FXIII so it does not breakup as much as it does when I pick harder. Are there any advanced parameters that control the picking sensitivity when it comes to this?

I usually use vintage Stratocasters or a Les Paul with stock pickups, and in general I pick pretty hard like Stevie Ray Vaughan did.

On the Axe FXIII everything seems to breakup a little more when I pick harder than it does on my real amps.

On my real amps when set an amp clean and you pick harder it just gets louder. It does not breakup at all.
When set clean, but just on the edge of breakup and you pick harder it breaks up just a little.
When set to a crunch type of breakup and you pick harder it starts to distorts a little more, etc.

Update:
I tried the input dynamics control Admin M suggested and that was what I was looking for!
Thanks everyone!
 
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Admin M@

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
A compressor in front of the amp will reduce input dynamics. I like this because you have a lot of control.
There's also the input dynamics control, which allows you to reduce input dynamics.

Though, I'm not sure this is the right solution to the problem you're describing. It sounds to me like you just have too much gain. Reduce input drive (and/or master volume) and increase level until your loudest playing doesn't break up.
 

trancegodz

Power User
A compressor in front of the amp will reduce input dynamics. I like this because you have a lot of control.
There's also the input dynamics control, which allows you to reduce input dynamics.

Though, I'm not sure this is the right solution to the problem you're describing. It sounds to me like you just have too much gain. Reduce input drive (and/or master volume) and increase level until your loudest playing doesn't break up.
Thanks! I haven't tried the input dynamics parameter before. I'll check that out.

I've been able to get great clean sounds on the Fender amps in the Axe FXIII by doing just what you suggested. Lowering the input trim to .5 does it for me.
 
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JoKeR III

Power User
While you're on the Dynamics page, in the Output Compressor, try the 'Output' Out Comp Type. Setting the 'Out Compression' parameter @ 1.50-2.00 will cut some of the dynamic drive.
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
If you're into SRV style, he didn't use a compressor. His compression came from the Tubescreamer.

What Admin M@ said: reduce input drive and/or MV and increase it until your loudest level without breakup

This is a interesing reading: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/understanding-all-the-different-gain-controls.95018/

On the Axe FXIII everything seems to breakup a little more when I pick harder than it does on my real amps.

On my real amps when set an amp clean and you pick harder it just gets louder. It does not breakup at all.
When set clean, but just on the edge of breakup and you pick harder it breaks up just a little.
When set to a crunch type of breakup and you pick harder it starts to distorts a little more, etc.
Potentiometers have very wide tolerances, so you may have to reduce the gain at the Axe-FX a little bit more than what you do at your amp.
 
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unFILTERed

Power User
While you're on the Dynamics page, in the Output Compressor, try the 'Output' Out Comp Type. Setting the 'Out Compression' parameter @ 1.50-2.00 will cut some of the dynamic drive.
the output compressor comes after all stages of amp block, right? it's after poweramp, means you can think of it as if it is after the amp block)
I am also not %100 sure but if it is the case, than it won't have any influence on amp's input dynamics, break up etc.
 

trancegodz

Power User
The main issue I am hoping to solve is that I find that I have to pick much softer when using the Axe FXIII than I do when using it's real amp counterparts. I have to change my playing style when using the Axe FXIII to get the sounds I like with the real amps.

When picking harder using the Axe FXIII it becomes a little thinner and brighter. It doesn't really matter how I have the amp set. I was hoping there might be an advanced parameter I could subtly tweak to address this.

I am able to get good sounds all around using the Axe FXIII. I am not unhappy at all with the Axe FXIII. I am just trying to subtly tweak it so I don't need to alter my picking style so much when using it.

I do use a compressor on clean amps, and sometimes on distorted amps, but not always.

Thanks Admin M, I am firing up the Axe FXIII right now to try out the input dynamics control.

Thanks Joker III, I do use the output compressor on some clean amps. I really like what it does to some of the clean Fenders and Vox amps. For distorted amps if I use the output compressor I use the gain enhancer.

Thanks Pling for the article. Good article.
 
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JoKeR III

Power User
the output compressor comes after all stages of amp block, right? it's after poweramp, means you can think of it as if it is after the amp block)
I am also not %100 sure but if it is the case, than it won't have any influence on amp's input dynamics, break up etc.
The goal is to try to reduce how much the amp breaks up depending upon the picking attack. Input Dynamics is a great place to start but the Output Compressor can help accomplish this as well.
 

skydog

Experienced
The main issue I am hoping to solve is that I find that I have to pick much softer when using the Axe FXIII than I do when using it's real amp counterparts. I have to change my playing style when using the Axe FXIII to get the sounds I like with the real amps.

When picking harder using the Axe FXIII it becomes a little thinner and brighter. It doesn't really matter how I have the amp set. I was hoping there might be an advanced parameter I could subtly tweak to address this.

I am able to get good sounds all around using the Axe FXIII. I am not unhappy at all with the Axe FXIII. I am just trying to subtly tweak it so I don't need to alter my picking style so much when using it.

I do use a compressor on clean amps, and sometimes on distorted amps, but not always.

Thanks Admin M, I am firing up the Axe FXIII right now to try out the input dynamics control.

Thanks Joker III, I do use the output compressor on some clean amps. I really like what it does to some of the clean Fenders and Vox amps. For distorted amps if I use the output compressor I use the gain enhancer.

Thanks Pling for the article. Good article.
I believe it, but I’m surprised. At stock parameters and identical “ideal”settings, I’m feeling the actual amp and the AFIII as the same. I use a heavy pick. Granted, I use a circular picking style most of the time - just the way I learned - it tends to soften things a bit. I play slide without a pick, and when I dig in with my fingers, I’m also hearing things identical. I should mention that I don’t hear so well - thanks Jim Marshall!
 

laxu

Power User
The main issue I am hoping to solve is that I find that I have to pick much softer when using the Axe FXIII than I do when using it's real amp counterparts. I have to change my playing style when using the Axe FXIII to get the sounds I like with the real amps.
If you are comparing to a real amp then it might be that the Axe-Fx 3 model is set up for how that amp behaves when at its sweet spot which on a real amp is usually way too loud. Solution is to simply turn down the master on the Axe-Fx 3 model.

Also try adjusting the input trim in the amp block or the input level to the Axe-Fx 3 itself. It might be that you are running a hotter signal in that you would get into the input of a real amp. Also remember that like for like knob positions do not result in the same effect on models and amps because real pots have variance to them.
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
The goal is to try to reduce how much the amp breaks up depending upon the picking attack. Input Dynamics is a great place to start but the Output Compressor can help accomplish this as well.
That doesn't make sense to me.

Output compression evens out the level of the final output, but it happens after both preamp and power amp, which are where amp overdrive happens, so I don't see how it's going to limit the amount of distortion.

For the stated purpose here, you'd want a compressor block before the amp.

That's not something I usually do, since an overdriven amp compresses on its own, don't want things to sound squashed.
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
A compressor in front of the amp will reduce input dynamics. I like this because you have a lot of control.
There's also the input dynamics control, which allows you to reduce input dynamics.

Though, I'm not sure this is the right solution to the problem you're describing. It sounds to me like you just have too much gain. Reduce input drive (and/or master volume) and increase level until your loudest playing doesn't break up.
I think @Admin M@ is on the right track, too much gain. Figure out whether most of the distortion if coming from the prank or the power amp, and turn that gain control down.

Another approach might be to choose amps and settings where the onset of clipping is more gradual. I think those would be the less modern ones, since higher gain modern amps often have harder clipping.

For settings, maybe try turning sag up and negative feedback down.
 

JoKeR III

Power User
That doesn't make sense to me.

Output compression evens out the level of the final output, but it happens after both preamp and power amp, which are where amp overdrive happens, so I don't see how it's going to limit the amount of distortion.

For the stated purpose here, you'd want a compressor block before the amp.

That's not something I usually do, since an overdriven amp compresses on its own, don't want things to sound squashed.
Doesn't have to make sense for it to work. Don't get stuck on where it's happening, the only thing that matters is the result. The question posed is how to keep an amp from breaking up when picking harder.

I typically don't use the Output compressor type because it does what the OP is asking for; limit the amount of gain/breakup/drive from the amp block when picking harder. Only time I've used it is if I want a tone to stay clean without squashing it too much.
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
Doesn't have to make sense for it to work. Don't get stuck on where it's happening, the only thing that matters is the result. The question posed is how to keep an amp from breaking up when picking harder.

I typically don't use the Output compressor type because it does what the OP is asking for; limit the amount of gain/breakup/drive from the amp block when picking harder. Only time I've used it is if I want a tone to stay clean without squashing it too much.
How can a compressor AFTER the amp keep it from breaking up when you pick harder?
 

JoKeR III

Power User
How can a compressor AFTER the amp keep it from breaking up when you pick harder?
Again, the goal is a tone that breaks up less when picking harder. With a bold clean or an edge of breakup tone, using the Output compressor type set @ 2.00 will reduce the amount of breakup that is heard when you pick harder. You are correct that the amp breakup is still happening before the compressor but the resulting tone using the compressor sounds like it's breaking up less.

If using the Output Compressor gives the desired result, why does it matter where it's happening?
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
Again, the goal is a tone that breaks up less when picking harder. With a bold clean or an edge of breakup tone, using the Output compressor type set @ 2.00 will reduce the amount of breakup that is heard when you pick harder. You are correct that the amp breakup is still happening before the compressor but the resulting tone using the compressor sounds like it's breaking up less.

If using the Output Compressor gives the desired result, why does it matter where it's happening?
Well I guess I'll have to try this.

Generally speaking, things happen because of Reasons, and understanding the mechanisms in play can often help predict how something will behave. What you say goes against my understanding of how the system works, but I'm open to the possibility that there's something about this I don't understand as well as I thought.

I'll check it out when I get a chance.
 
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