Phosphine found on Venus: life?

From a purely Newtonian view, you can fix any frame of reference and say it’s stationary, and everything else moves around it, but that ignores the gravitational realities of things. Physics dictates that the path of least resistance is chosen. Path of least resistance for the Earth is to go around the Sun. But the Sun itself is not stationary either, we just use it as a convenient frame of reference. Earth’s own rotation also affects the perceived weight of objects on the surface. The effect is small, but measurable. It’s the same effect that causes weightlessness in orbit.

Not Newtonian but you mean from a Relativistic view?
yyz67 is right regarding the history of Relativity. Einstein was not the first. However, he is off with Galileo as Galileo's "evidence" which was over 15 that he presented at his inquisition trial. Physicists today worth their weight all acknowledge he was wrong in every evidence he presented. For instance one was that the tides are caused by the Earth's rotation. Today we know it's the moon's gravitational influence causing the tides.

In any case Ernst Mach in the 1800s showed why that Newtonian physics can easily and clearly NOT be the case.

In Newton’s time he had no idea what the stars were how big there are, what they are made of and of the existence of galaxies, galaxy clusters, superclusters and massive superclusters.

So Newton excluded the stars when he factored in his equation results and limited his formulas just to the Solar System. By doing so...yes the Sun's mass would be the major influence for the Solar System's "barycenter" or center of mass by which all the objects including the Sun itself and the Earth would revolve around. Given the Solar System's mass considerations, the "barycenter" would be located near the center of the Sun's mass. The sun itself would wobble around this spot.

Now Mach correctly showed that Newton could not do this! He must factor in the rest of the universe in his equations.

This is “Mach’s Principle”. With Mach’s Principle the so called “Path of least resistance” could have the Earth occupying the spot of “no resistance” ....ie...the "barycenter" (center of mass) of the universe. Einstein himself utilized "Mach's Principle" for his 1915 General Relativity. Einstein's GTR actually "justifies" the Tycho Model.

Ironically, Newton the incredible genius that he was had a hint or notion of such a possibility and actually planned to place this notion on the last page of his famous book “The Principia” but at the last minute left it out. It’s his Proposition 43.

In Proposition 43, Newton showed that the added force must be a central force, one whose magnitude depends only upon the distance r between the particle and a point fixed in space (the center).

He wrote in Proposition 43:

“In order for the Earth to be at rest in the center of the system of the Sun, Planets, and Comets, there is required both universal gravity and another force in addition that acts on all bodies equally according to the quantity of matter in each of them and is equal and opposite to the accelerative gravity with which the Earth tends to the Sun...Since this force is equal and opposite to its gravity toward the Sun, the Earth can truly remain in equilibrium between these two forces and be at rest. And thus celestial bodies can move around the Earth at rest, as in the Tychonic system.”

Several modern physicists have acknowledged Newton’s alternative, one of them being the Nobel laureate, Steven Weinberg.

Here's how Weinberg describes it in his 2015 book, To Explain the World:

"If we were to adopt a frame of reference like Tycho’s in which the Earth is at rest, then the distant galaxies would seem to be executing circular turns once a year, and in general relativity this enormous motion would create forces akin to gravitation, which would act on the Sun and planets and give them the motions of the Tychonic theory.

Newton seems to have had a hint of this.

In an unpublished ‘Proposition 43’ that did not make it into the Principia, Newton acknowledges that Tycho’s theory could be true if some other force besides ordinary gravitation acted on the Sun and planets."

Steven Weinberg, To Explain the World: The Discovery of Modern Science, HarperCollins, 2015, pp. 251-252.

Weinberg also notes that the inclusion of forces outside the solar system that will allow Tychonian geocentrism are specified in Newton’s Proposition 43, which was originally planned to be added to page 510, the last page of the Principia.
 
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Agent Smith has apparently never seen a goat :).
 
All that normal people need to know is: all models are wrong, but some are useful. Heliocentric model is useful. Geocentric - not so much.
 
I get it, but I vote for geocentric. Extremely useful for almost everything in everyday life on this rock. Quadrillions of non-scientific organisms can't be that wrong.
 
All that normal people need to know is: all models are wrong, but some are useful. Heliocentric model is useful. Geocentric - not so much.

Not so....there is only one model that is right.

And the most useful is the model by which the reference frame is overwhelmingly used.

That would of course be the geo model since the vast majority of space missions would necessarily be the one that bases it’s calculations off of... ie...the starting point ...the Earth.
 
Thanks for the kind words. :)

Got a bit of a reprieve from the intensity of suck today. Sometimes it just takes a few hours away from your tormentor to pull up out of a funk....
Wonderful to hear, Joe. I’m glad you got some lower pressure minutes. Life definitely throws some tough days. I try to remind myself that life never stays good or bad forever. Wishing you some peace in your day, bro.
 
It costs $2 trillion to develop an atmospheric fighter plane in the US nowadays, let alone send a bunch of people to the moon. Where I live outfitting a single intersection with a set of traffic lights costs the taxpayer a cool $1M.

Elon is a badass, that’s not up for debate, but there are some economic and regulatory realities to contend with. We won’t be back to the moon without another Cold War sadly.
The moon isn't as glorious as it was. Now it's about man going farther than the moon. We've never travelled farther than the moon. So we will travel beyond the moon.
Travel to the moon, circle the moon to pick up speed and sling shot beyond.... turn around and return to earth.
 
We will likely die on this rock and never leave our solar system. Kind of depressing, but realistic.

If we could build a starship that could bring us to another habitable planet we would not need an habitable planet ...
Spacetime is the great filter.
I think so to... living on Mars, moon, spacecraft for 10,000 yr? Nope
Most reasonable approach to longevity of human..... is to kill 98% of the population and start over again
 
Yes, I think the whole living on Mars stuff is also kind of stupid on a large scale. Living on Mars is like living in the antarctic, just much more deadly. And nobody wants to live there either ...


People can’t really estimate exponential processes. 100 years ago we didn’t have penicillin or most of what we currently consider to be our medical field. 80 years ago it wasn’t clear there’d be people permanently in orbit. Heck 5 years ago it was impossible to launch and control tens of thousands of satellites - before SpaceX there were fewer than 1500 satellites in total. I don’t think we can predict anything more than a few years ahead. For all we know some kid might discover some math or physical principle which makes interstellar travel possible. It’s gonna happen eventually.
People also don't fully understand relativity.
Interstellar travel will be possible for sure. But not for humans. Every interstellar journey would be without a ticket back home.
 
A goat is a mammal :).
A goat would fall into Smith's view of "every mammal". The carrying capacity for goats in the wild is well established. Will it eat your couch? Yes. Will it solve problems of food supply, shelter and safety, etc. by inventing agriculture, industry and warfare?

No.
 
... which they try to decouple as soon as they can.
The moon isn't as glorious as it was. Now it's about man going farther than the moon. We've never travelled farther than the moon. So we will travel beyond the moon.
Travel to the moon, circle the moon to pick up speed and sling shot beyond.... turn around and return to earth.
Moon landings? You’re right. Moon base? Seems pretty glorious to me.
 
There’s helium on the moon, tho, and a valuable isotope thereof. Plus the Moon has a much shallower gravity well which makes it easier to launch stuff to Earth from there. This was explored in great detail by Heinlein in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”. Technically it’d be super easy to destroy Earth by launching projectiles from the Moon. They’d be accelerated to hypersonic speeds by the Earth’s gravity well. And you can’t do jack shit about whoever is launching it. Hence why a military base of some sort is inevitable there within this century.
 
Did you see... when the Chinese probe map the dark side of the moon, its smooth. The impact crater's ... are predominantly on the earth side
 
Never mind that the gravity and atmospheric pressure would crush anything we could send before it ever reached the surface like Cassini.

I thought it was obvious ... ever seen "The empire strikes back"? :tearsofjoy:

There’s helium on the moon, tho, and a valuable isotope thereof. Plus the Moon has a much shallower gravity well which makes it easier to launch stuff to Earth from there.

You're right.

I really think that Helium will be the driving force behind future space missions. Correction: 'a driving force' would be more correct ...
 
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Thing is, without a natural predator to keep their numbers in check ALL animals multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. That's why zebras and wildebeasts have lions eating them, or they would eat the savannah into a desert. Us humans have no predator in check. Other then maybe the hardness of life and diseases that killed most of us off before we even became adults. There's a reasons why families used to have 12+ kids, most would not survive. And the moment life became easier and modern medicine did away with most of the viruses and bacteria that preyed upon us, humanity started to explode.

So, are you going to volunteer to the suicide booths to save the planet?

I pose a different alternative, if we want to save Earth, humanity should get off this world and into space. The Kuyper Belt and Oort Cloud alone have enough dwarf planets, asteroids and comets to provide the resources to build enough O'Neill cylinders to house trillions of humans. Get us off this planet and we can turn in into a planetary park.

And that's excluding the fact that we have to get off eventually, because the sun is slowly getting hotter with age. In 600 mln years the Earth will look like Venus no matter what we do. Which means if we want to preserver the Earth's greatest gift, life in all its forms and shapes, not only do we ourselves need to get off this world, but we have to take our magnificent biosphere with us.
There is no place in space to live that can support human life. If there is it would take many lifetimes to get there. That's not to say we shouldn't look. But knowing is far different than going. I think the distances are on purpose. Additionally, if your concerned about 600 million years from now I wonder what you worry about now. sarc
 
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