• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Perspective

Marky

Inspired
Good post Shasha.

But after watching the forums over the last day or so i can see why there is so much anger. First though

Cliff,

You are a genius!!!! I'm a software developer as well as a guitar player so i can see your side to an extent of how you busted your ass. The fact that you produced the first Axe-Fx pretty much on your own is a true testament to your dedication to produce a truly ground breaking product and i'm sure that has continued with the Axe-Fx II.

But i think this launch was handled badly. As was the MFC-101 (still waiting for my discount coupon). Both done differently and both have not had a good outcome.

I remember seeing an official post not that long ago saying there was not a new replacement product for the Ultra, well that clearly was a lie and if people have been told very recently that no new product is coming then that does not sound like good business ethics. Certainly not in the way Fractal conduct their business.

I think the countdown aspect just made everything worse. Built up a lot of hype, no not a lot, crazy hype and people have been let down. I can remember an official post on the countdown "everyone will be happy" certainly not true and i understand why.

Having said all that, I've had my Ultra since last June. Am i going to dump it, hell no. Am i going to buy an Axe-Fx II, HELL YES and if i could be first in line i would be.

Mark
 
Last edited:

MicFarlow

Experienced
Vendor
+1,000,000,000 Shasha!

I must admit I was a little bummed... only because I am a recent adopter (long time wanter :D) and two of the things I really wanted (headphone and USB) are now available only a few weeks after my purchase....

But that's just bad timing on my part... (my bad timing obviously is related to additional things other than my bad playing!!!! )

I'll eventually get an Axe II and will make sure some of my friends get them in the meantime... got 2 and probably a 3rd person who were gonna get Ultra's... now they can get some Axe II's and I'll go play with their toys!!!!!!

Rock On Cliff! I could not be happier for you and Fractal and I'll keep steering folks your way!

(BTW... 10db quieter???? not doubting Cliff at all but I can't hear the Ultra now... or did I jack my hearing up that bad already... :eek:)
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Vendor
Good post Shasha.

But after watching the forums over the last day or so i can see why there is so much anger. First though

Cliff,

You are a genius!!!! I'm a software developer as well as a guitar player so i can see your side to an extent of how you busted your ass. The fact that you produced the first Axe-Fx pretty much on your own is a true testament to your dedication to produce a truly ground breaking product and i'm sure that has continued with the Axe-Fx II.

But i think this launch was handled badly. As was the MFC-101 (still waiting for my discount coupon). Both done differently and both have not had a good outcome.

I remember seeing an official post not that long ago saying there was not a new replacement product for the Ultra, well that clearly was a lie and if people have been told very recently that no new product is coming then that does not sound like good business ethics. Certainly not in the way Fractal conduct their business.

I think the countdown aspect just made everything worse. Built up a lot of hype, no not a lot, crazy hype and people have been let down. I can remember an official post on the countdown "everyone will be happy" certainly not true and i understand why.

Having said all that, I've had my Ultra since last June. Am i going to dump it, hell no. Am i going to buy an Axe-Fx II, HELL YES and if i could be first in line i would be.

Mark

Mark,

Cliff NEVER posted "everyone will be happy'. Cliff posted that the announcement would not be a let down. And frankly it's NOT a let down. The Axe2 and v11.0 firmware for the existing units both are not a let down. Upcoming full release on the editor and firmware for the MFC will not be a let down.

The countdown was fun. The 'hype' and 'crazy' was generated by forum members on various forums across the Net speculating.

Strawman is strawman. Doesn't make any of it so.
 
Last edited:

ventura

Experienced
Mark,

Cliff NEVER posted "everyone will be happy'. Cliff posted that the announcement would not be a let down. And frankly it's NOT a let down. The Axe2 and v11.0 firmware for the existing units both are not a let down. Upcoming full release on the editor and firmware for the MFC will not be a let down.

The countdown was fun. The 'hype' and 'crazy' was generated by forum members on various forums across the Net speculating.

Strawman is strawman. Doesn't make any of it so.

Minions and opinions... There's no right or wrong in this, but I can clearly see both sides; and I did forewarn of it in my original post. But whatever, it's over with... Onwards and upwards, pumped to get my new '2'.

Good night y'all...
V.

PS - and Scott, c'mon man, you oughta be smiling in yer avatar... Music is fun, innit??
 

Marky

Inspired
Scott,

Ok my bad for misquoting, its not like i can search for the post anymore to check but regardless. Try telling anyone that bought very recently that its not a let down. I think you will get a different story and i totally agree they are annoyed. Especially if they were told no new product.

The countdown might have been fun for you and others in the know to have a good laugh but i don't think it was good for a product launch.

We all have our own opinions i guess.

Mark
 

Sammetal91

Power User
What's killing me is the people threatening to sue me, file a charge-back with their CC issuer, etc. Unbelievable.

And then people implying I should've reduced the price. Like it cost less now to build for some reason (when in fact the costs had risen over 10% this past year).

Total one-way street with a lot of people. Bust my ass to give them the best product I can and they repay me with this BS. Nice.

honestly Cliff this pains me and I don't even know you man. A person dedicated to make something that a lot of people want, only for people to turn on you is not cool. I'm not trying to brown nose you Cliff but just to let you know, you have many loyal people dedicated to your products and believe in your cause. I am one. Keep your sense of humor with you, take all forumite posts with a grain of salt, and laugh at the other digital companies freak over being 4 flights behind your products and try to accomplish a good tone with budget items and monkeys on pcp. it'll be good for your heart.
 
Charlie bit my finger!

I see you have GIBSON SG CLASSIC on your list. I just bought one off eBay. I could not resist the p90 power!
I've read some of the posts that your response is about. I just discovered Fractal Audio a few weeks ago have been reading the forums every day. Some folks have to grow and learn. Its like being a musician, it take's time, and you can't rush it. Sometimes the only sane thing to do is enjoy the drama and smile.http://forum.fractalaudio.com/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Vendor
Minions and opinions... There's no right or wrong in this, but I can clearly see both sides; and I did forewarn of it in my original post. But whatever, it's over with... Onwards and upwards, pumped to get my new '2'.

Good night y'all...
V.

PS - and Scott, c'mon man, you oughta be smiling in yer avatar... Music is fun, innit??

"Minion"? Dude, seriously?

Wow.
 

gittarzann

Power User
What's killing me is the people threatening to sue me, file a charge-back with their CC issuer, etc. Unbelievable.

And then people implying I should've reduced the price. Like it cost less now to build for some reason (when in fact the costs had risen over 10% this past year).

Total one-way street with a lot of people. Bust my ass to give them the best product I can and they repay me with this BS. Nice.

I am not going to say I am ecstatic about my Ultra losing 3-4C notes in value instantly, but I can't believe people would take things that far.

I for one think the II is under priced...I expected 2500+, that may have helped the other units hold their value better.
 
Last edited:

CyberFerret

Power User
Firstly- congrats Cliff for 'pushing the envelope' yet again. I am saying this as someone who bought an Ultra two months ago, not as a fanboi.

Secondly- a standing golf clap to Shasha for his OP. Well said, and well supported by others.

I must admit being a little bemused by the reactions of some. I must have missed the memo that went around saying the Axe-Fx's were the new investment vehicle we should be using these days instead of stocks, gold or property. I cannot understand people talking about 'losing money' on their devices... What? Really? It is a TOOL people. Just a tool. My brother in law is a mechanic but I don't think I have ever seen him complain about his spanner losing value. Every time he turns it, it is MAKING him money...

I've run my own IT business for around 20 years now, and if there is one thing I've learned, it's that the whiners are generally zero value to your business. They make a lot of noise and hot air, but at the end of the day, their contribution to your bottom line is next to nothing, or else what they DO contribute is rapidly eaten up in angst, aggravation and general bad energy.

Best thing I ever did for my business was to say 'No' to those sorts of customer and just not deal with them. Full stop.

From my estimations of what I've read here, and from the polls on other forums, it looks like the whiners make up about 10% of the total audience.

Given what I have seen about the demand for Fractal Audio's products, I think Cliff can easily sack 10% of his customer base and STILL be backlogged for months.
 

ventura

Experienced
"Minion"? Dude, seriously?

Wow.

Minions: MinionFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Look up minion or minions in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

A minion is a follower devoted to serving his master relentlessly.

Ya, dude, wow... Seriously. There's a lot of 'em here, fact is, my inbox has a number of cats who've PM'd me concurring with my anti-establishment prose over the course of the last few days BUT WERE TOO AFRAID TO SAY THESE THINGS THEMSELVES. Why the fear, dude?? Why not simply open debate??

WTF is that all about?? Whatever, we can agree to disagree, just try and smile, none of this shit is serious when we'll all be laying on our death bed thinking and reminiscing about the real essence of life and what true contentedness is - hopeful we ever actually experience it.

ANYWAY - forget about it...let's get cracking on loading those new chassis up with phat dual processors, tending to QC and getting them out the door, shall we. Business is business, and the rocket's been launched, so let's get to the destination, shall we?

Namaste,
V.
 
Last edited:

iamkojak

New Member
just discovered this thread and i must say i fully agree with the original poster.

first off, i recently registered here a few days ago (during the countdown) albeit being a AxeFX standard owner for almost three years now. i've lurked this forum a few times before in the past and always found it very informative with a lot of knowledgeable users. i was then quite shocked by the amount of bullshit and worthless comments in the countdown thread. and then that was topped by the reaction of several users after the announcement of the AxeFX II.


i can understand the disappointment for somebody who recently bought an ultra and now could have gotten the AxeFX II in a few weeks (months?) for almost the same price. but that's the way of technology. you'll always get a better computer, tv, or phone for the same amount of money over time. the only difference is that we're not used to product cycles with the AxeFX as we are with macs, for example.

a lot of these users seem to be used to moving gear and reselling it for a profit, thus not accepting the fact their beloved ultras have now lost value.

some guitarists apparently are not aware that technology, in contrast to vintage gear, does indeed evolve over time and older products are succeeded by superior ones.

i don't think would have been a way to announce the AxeFX II that pleases everyone. while it did come as unexpected, it was bound to happen at some point. Cliff handled this the best way possible without sacrificing his business's resources. which at the end is a benefit for all of us since we'd like to see an ever improving AxeFX.


knowing that there's now a 'newer, better' unit than your ultra shouldn't overweight the fact that you were entirely happy with it before.
 
Last edited:

brettlingle

New Member
I know. I'll sell the Axe-Fx II at $2199 and then in a few months raise the price and ask everyone who already bought one to pay the difference.
Hahahaha too funny! I have an Ultra no problems here Cliff keep doing what you love to do there are people here that appreciate it like me! It's the nature of the game folks. When I bought my Macbook Pro in 2007 it was top of the line and cost me over $4000. I can now get about $300 bucks for it if I am lucky. To make another analogy, I bought a Samsung 3D LED TV last year for $3000 they are now going for about half that and they were actually $5000 when they came out. If you always wait for the next model you would never buy anything or enjoy it. If you people can't handle the fact that something new and better is always going to come out then maybe you need to go back to your tube amps where vintage gear is still desirable!
 

Raven

Member
What's killing me is the people threatening to sue me, file a charge-back with their CC issuer, etc. Unbelievable.

And then people implying I should've reduced the price. Like it cost less now to build for some reason (when in fact the costs had risen over 10% this past year).

Total one-way street with a lot of people. Bust my ass to give them the best product I can and they repay me with this BS. Nice.

Man, that does upset me to hear that. I know that I have been vocal about my displeasure as to how the release was handled & to the comments & attitudes flying around on this forum, but it makes me feel slightly sick in my stomach that people would get nasty with Cliff like that. If people are doing things of that nature then I can only hope that they get a little perspective & realise how silly & misplaced this is.

As for some of the posts here though, it's just this kind of aggressive superiority fan-boy attitude that cause people to be upset & raise the issues that they have in the first place, it really isn't constructive. Like I said in a previous thread, why can't we all just celebrate the release of a new product positively while having a little empathy for those who had bad timing. I suspect that if things were handled in a respectful way like that around here then it wouldn't have gotten people's goat's the way that it did (it takes 2 to tango). I think people are entitled to feel slightly offended when they're told in official marketing that their lovely new units are 'history' & that people without an Axe II & an MFC are 'Luddites' & then old-time forum users are coming on here as though they've heard officially that the Ultra will no longer have further updates as Cliff isn't interested in 'Legacy Products'. Then guys who got tipped off are calling customers with legitimate concerns 'trolls', 'idiots', 'whiney' & other such derogatory things. ...come on guys, you've got to take responsibility for people's reactions to some degree here, that's a shit-load of irresponsible stirring.

I would like to think though that EVERYBODY here is in support of Cliff, his work & his continued success. I for one will be trying to sell off everything I can in order to send some more business Cliff's way shortly anyhow! Please try & take the positive from this post & don't try & spark an argument where there isn't one, the intention of this post is to show some perspective & try & break down this 'us' verses 'them' thing that seems so prevalent with the old-term users on this forum (as I believe that that is where the biggest problem lies for Fractal). Here's to Cliff, the Axe II & to Fractal's continued success, we all live & learn...
 
Last edited:

Ochanomizu

Inspired
I've had my Ultra since 2009, and love every bit of it. Personally, I wouldn't be over the moon if I had just bought it before the release of the Axe FX II, but that didn't happen for me, and I'm not in a hurry to upgrade to an Axe FX II at the moment, and no need to sit on a wait list.

My only question to Fractal is, will the Ultra still get new amp sims and effects and future upgrades? My apologies if this has been answered already, but I'm having difficulty searching the forum at the moment.

I mentioned earlier, perhaps if Cliff threw in a new amp sim with v11 upgrade it may have eased the pain for those that are complaining, but it's not our call and Cliff is only human (i.e. I'm sure he's been busting his guts with the new Axe FX II and getting it right).


The upgrades are a nice-to-have feature, especially free. Of course, this is Cliff's decision to give us free upgrades. The upgrades with new amps etc was one of my reasons for purchasing the Ultra, so it would be a shame if no new amp sims ever come out again for the Ultra, just IMHO. Anyway, not sure if Cliff has the capacity to provide upgrades to both the Axe FX II AND the Ultra/Standard. Only Cliff knows. No doubt he will be concentrating future effort on the Axe FX II and beyond...

As one forum poster suggested, you can get an Axe II and still use the Ultra as a backup (which still beats the competitors offerings).



Cheers
 

Popcorn

Member
Comparing FAS to Avid is a bit of a stretch. While it'd be nice if FAS had been able to do something like that, their businesses and certainly the size of the businesses are simply nothing alike. If sales on the Control 24 slow down coz there's a new one coming, how many other products and lines of business do Avid have to keep income flowing in regardless of that? If sales slowed on the Standard and Ultra, how many other areas of income do they have?

Mind you, they'll still charge their customers $100 for a firmware upgrade on the 11R. :lol

But, that's my point. As long as it's up front about the cost of upgrades or a newer, better product coming out soon, you can at least make an informed decision, not feel like you've been fooled into buying a product that is being phased out. You can't help but react the way that everyone has reacted. All companies give clearance sales to get rid of the old models and bring in the new ones. That's the way it should of been handled. But because it wasn't it has brought about a wave of ill-will that FAS will feel for years to come. Now my impression of Cliff has always been that he's a VERY smart man and I know that the only men who don't make mistakes are the men that don't do anything.

For me, I'm not going to sue anybody or mess with the credit card companies, I'll just do it the old fashioned way by word of mouth and let all my friends in the music business know what happened. Cliff, can say it's not my fault and all of his defenders can back him up but in BUSINESS the buck stops and starts with him and there are a lot of unhappy customers.

And in business the rule is " The Customer Is Always Right" because that's where the cash comes from.
 
Last edited:

AxelF

Member
I totally agree with Shasha, but how about that:

All Axe-Fxs share the same processor base. So perhaps Fractal Audio could make a poll which includes the most useful software (firmware) features from Axe-Fx II, that reasonably could be implemented in the legacy Axe-Fxs. The elected first n (3, 4, 5 whatever) features will be implemented as a conclusion of the legacy firmware development - so (some) legacy users can calm down and stop moaning. Perhaps this means only the Ultra can be enhanced, but who knows.
 
Top Bottom