Perspective - Fractal Audio user since 2008

Bob G

Member
Intro
As someone who came from Eventide H3000D/SE, DSP4500, Eclipse, Orville and H8000, The Axe-Fx felt like it was sent to earth from the Gods of Mount Olympus to cure the delirium of being an Eventide VSig programmer. Having several different studio setups with racks of top outboard wired into patch bays and a mixing console and then applying and combining the sounds from guitar pedals into real amps mic'd up at good tone volumes was A LOT to manage! I do believe there aren't many left on this earth who would endeavor to go down that path any longer, though there are still a few champions of the old ways who are sonic architects revealing some of the magic of the older gear and putting that knowledge into the Axe-Fx. Cliff and Matt of course, but also others like Simeon Harris, Leon Todd, Brett Kingman and many more.


Things I love about Axe-Fx
Not only do I love how Fractal Audio came up with their own versions of some of the best Eventide algorithms and warmed some of them up with a smoother "analog" sound and feel, but programming became much simpler with Axe Edit. I feel that we are very lucky to have the Axe-Fx units for many reasons. All of them have been like a gift from the Gods compared to the way things used to be for creative guitarists and tone chasers having to manage racks, patch bays and hundreds of cable connections whereby you could spend days chasing down a line trouble, whether it be a short circuit, ground or disconnect. The amp modeling is as close as it gets to the real thing and that is often the main attraction of the Axe-Fx. Its a point which many have tried to argue but Cliff always has improvements coming that put Fractal's Technology ten steps ahead of any other amp simulation maker. Right now, there isn't a single product on the market that sounds as close to real amplifiers as the Axe-Fx III or even the previous generation Axe-Fx II technology. If investment security is something that is a concern, Fractal certainly has it.


What the Axe-Fx evolved into for me
For me personally, the Axe-Fx evolved into becoming a brilliant sketch pad for coming up with new sounds. If you're like me and you use specific guitar pedals for the final production/recorded song version of your sounds, there is nothing better than the Axe-Fx for testing out ideas of sound design to see if they are going to work out or not. Before you commit to anything and start hooking up all your guitar pedals and messing about with the cabling, the Axe-Fx can approximate the sounds of any guitar pedals, close enough to test out an effect chain idea, to hear how it might sound and how it might work within the context of the music.

After spending years with Eventide, Lexicon and other screen based programming effects units, the Axe-Fx made things a lot easier but one problem that I still had with it was that if I had a creative idea, much of my idea would get lost by the time I had the Axe-Fx setup with the sound I heard in my head. So, for a few years, I switched back to using a few of my favorite Eventide patches in the Eclipse Harmonizer and H8000 combined with Strymon pedals and my TC 2290 and Korg SDD3000 rack delays for my digital effects combined with real amps. I moved away from the Fractal because I needed to step outside of being in "programmer mode" all the time. I wanted to get back to something more direct, using knobs and my hands and limiting the amount of programming I had to do, in order to design my sounds. I think there are many folks who came into the Fractal programming world but also longed for the simplicity of real amps and pedals.


Criticisms and a change of heart
I criticized the Axe-Fx harshly in the same way I criticized the H8000 as being a real time waster for a recording artist who is trying to get their creative ideas out of their head quickly in the heat of battle - in the recording studio with work timelines. While this is still true for anybody who's creative imagination is rapid-fire, the perspective that I've gained after a decade+ of using Axe Edit in its various forms is this: I have found my own ways of working with the Axe-Fx, using some saved patches of my own that I've created over many years combined with a built up knowledge that allows me to work efficiently with it in a way that is no slower or faster than using pedal effects.

Because there are continuous firmware updates with Fractal products, as a customer, this made me feel almost like a beta tester; like I was working with a product that was never fully realized and in a state of constant improvement, to reach what it should have been in the first place. The improvements with each firmware update can seem marginal. Some of the updates are a quantum leap, while others just feel like an inconvenience when I have to go back and re-adjust all of my personal programs because the update changed the way they behave. This was an annoyance, but I feel differently now about it and I appreciate that when you buy the flagship Fractal Product, you are really buying the equivalent of 5 - 10 products because of all of the positive changes that come during the life cycle of an Axe-Fx. There are indeed updates, where you plug into your Axe-Fx and it sounds and feels as though you just got a whole new product without having to pay for it.


Expanding knowledge
One thing that I think is really important to consider is the community of users and the range of information that is shared about how to get exactly what you need out of the Fractal Technology. Not enough can be said about how much of a difference that makes. As a recording artist, once you get good at programming an Axe-Fx, then you can really dive into the finer nuances of how to really make it do the things that you need it to do for your own music and guitar style. While you can learn a great deal by looking closely at some of the more advanced patches by sound designers like Simeon Harris, I also feel a great deal of gratitude for people such as Justin York and Leon Todd who've been immensely helpful with their expertise and next-level Fractal programming knowledge and skills.


Commitment
This is the most advanced guitar sound creation system available and the future of guitar sound creation will probably evolve from Fractal, not from any of the other platforms. The other platforms largely imitate Fractal with a simplified UI and algorithms that are very much fixed and cannot be expanded upon and customized to the same level. Some of the UI design is quite elegant and touch screens can be nice, though not absolutely necessary. I've used the other systems from companies and I outgrew them quickly because they have sonic limitations that Fractal's technology doesn't. I begged Strymon to make a Fractal quality amp simulator in a pedal in 2016. They tried to do that in the way I described it to them and released the Iridium pedal a few years later. While it's fun and useful for sketching out ideas, it leaves me wanting to plug into my Axe-Fx for the superior sound quality and editing capabilities. I think any other amp simulation product is going to have the same effect for me because my ears are trained to locate the best sounds possible and while many things sound great right out of the box, the Axe Fx can always be pushed to sound better, if you're willing to put in the work of experimenting with the expert level parameters. After going around the gear roundabout for the past decade, I feel like it's very important to commit to one platform and to really learn how to use that technology to it's greatest potential. For me, the Axe-Fx is the only device that gives me everything that I need to commit to it. There is enough room within its capabilities for me to evolve with it over time and continue to explore and push artistic boundaries while also feeling impressed by the results that are achievable. It's the only piece of amp modeling and effects technology I've worked with that doesn't leave me feeling like I can't push it any further. It allows me to do things that are very specific to my personal needs. Some of my needs are very specific.


Final Thoughts
Hopefully this post can serve as perspective to anyone out there who is interested in an Axe-Fx or considering moving to the Axe-Fx as the central part of their guitar or sound making life. I've wrestled with Axe-Fx products enough to have gained these perspectives that I believe are unbiased. Yes, it has a steep learning curve at the start for anyone who's never used digital effects rack equipment or more advanced level DAW plugins. There is huge reward for the work that you put into learning how to use the Axe Fx. A reward that becomes greater as you use it.
 
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It's definitely not your standard forum post.

It's a summary of a lot of experience, being on the Fractal Audio train from the beginning - from the first Axe-Fx Standard model until now.

I also haven't posted anything here in over 7 years, so this is what I have to say after a long silence.
It was a JOKE! Notice "Cliff's" Notes...as in Cliff Chase...not CliffsNotes. Notice the ;). If I have to spell it out...., never mind.
 
Some really good points in there.

As for coming up with quick sounds on the fly, the best way to address this I’ve found is by building out a couple of good Template patches and using Axe-Edit to do the pre-work of saving all your favorite effects block channels into the saved effects library for easy recall later.
 
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OP's journey definitely resonates with me.

I used the Axe-Fx from Standard to 2 for many years until the 3 was released. I didn't want to buy it because of how expensive it was for more horsepower that I felt I didn't need. I felt it didn't do enough to improve the one pain point I had with my Axe-Fx 2: the front panel user interface. Same old clunky navigation section and only the bigger screen and knobs under the front panel seemed like improvements. It was not entirely fair as using the UI there were improvements for sure but it's still my least favorite onboard UI on a modeler (while Axe-Edit is my favorite software editor).

Sold my Axe-Fx 2 while I could still get good money for it and went back to tube amps. Then ended up buying other modelers to try them out, finding things that I felt were missing from the Fractal platform but ultimately never committed to them. Tried the pedalboard route too and having all those dedicated knobs really helped me spend more time playing than tweaking. But ultimately it all ballooned to something that was harder to manage than Fractal so I ended up buying a used Axe-Fx 3 Mk2 for a fair price.

It's a much larger box than I'd like and currently resides sideways in a rack case under my desk because the damn thing could not comfortably fit on it. I'm now using it pretty much completely from Axe-Edit but really miss the tactileness of real knobs and switches. Unfortunately the current iteration of the Fractal firmware is not well suited for working like that with a MIDI knob controller, there's just too many limitations and inconveniences. Like OP I've learned my way around the way Fractal works and can operate it reasonably fast but I think there's plenty of low hanging fruit that could be improved. The Fractal is way easier to manage than pedals for things like stereo setups, parallel routing, fx combination changes etc. Plus there's very little it can't do soundwise.

I'm getting the best tones I've ever gotten on any setup with the 20.02 firmware I loaded in yesterday. And that's just through headphones, can't wait to get some stands and hook up my studio monitors again. Kudos to Fractal for making these things even better sounding when I thought they could not get much better even back in the end of the Axe-Fx 2 days.
 
Some really good points in there.

As for coming up with quick sounds on the fly, The best way to address this I’ve found is by building out a couple of good Template patches and using Axe-Edit to do the pre-work of saving all your favorite effects block channels into the saved effects library for easy recall later.
Indeed. Having some templates of the mono and stereo (dual mono) amp setups I normally use and then adding my saved user preset effects from the library is what I've been doing for a while and it's as efficient as things can be for now. I always get this image in my mind of Tom Cruise in Minority Report, grabbing and combining data with his fingers from a virtual touchscreen floating in the air and imagine that will be the future of how we program sounds into these units. Maybe a feature request for the Axe-Fx IV :)
 
OP's journey definitely resonates with me.

I used the Axe-Fx from Standard to 2 for many years until the 3 was released. I didn't want to buy it because of how expensive it was for more horsepower that I felt I didn't need. I felt it didn't do enough to improve the one pain point I had with my Axe-Fx 2: the front panel user interface. Same old clunky navigation section and only the bigger screen and knobs under the front panel seemed like improvements. It was not entirely fair as using the UI there were improvements for sure but it's still my least favorite onboard UI on a modeler (while Axe-Edit is my favorite software editor).

Sold my Axe-Fx 2 while I could still get good money for it and went back to tube amps. Then ended up buying other modelers to try them out, finding things that I felt were missing from the Fractal platform but ultimately never committed to them. Tried the pedalboard route too and having all those dedicated knobs really helped me spend more time playing than tweaking. But ultimately it all ballooned to something that was harder to manage than Fractal so I ended up buying a used Axe-Fx 3 Mk2 for a fair price.

It's a much larger box than I'd like and currently resides sideways in a rack case under my desk because the damn thing could not comfortably fit on it. I'm now using it pretty much completely from Axe-Edit but really miss the tactileness of real knobs and switches. Unfortunately the current iteration of the Fractal firmware is not well suited for working like that with a MIDI knob controller, there's just too many limitations and inconveniences. Like OP I've learned my way around the way Fractal works and can operate it reasonably fast but I think there's plenty of low hanging fruit that could be improved. The Fractal is way easier to manage than pedals for things like stereo setups, parallel routing, fx combination changes etc. Plus there's very little it can't do soundwise.

I'm getting the best tones I've ever gotten on any setup with the 20.02 firmware I loaded in yesterday. And that's just through headphones, can't wait to get some stands and hook up my studio monitors again. Kudos to Fractal for making these things even better sounding when I thought they could not get much better even back in the end of the Axe-Fx 2 days.
It certainly sounds like we've had a similar experience. Trying different solutions eats up a lot of time and is exhausting. It was only worth it because it cemented some realities for me:

1. Fractal Technology is still years ahead of any other company and while other companies attempt to catch up, Fractal continue to move further ahead, out front. If you picture it like a race, Fractal are like a solitary runner in the lead by themselves, a mile ahead of all the other runners. That statement might sound like a gushy comment from someone trying to validate their purchase, but I have been just as critical of Fractal Technology in the past because I felt that the programming was very non-intuitive. That has improved greatly. Yes, there is still low hanging fruit that could be improved. I think most of us have high hopes for that.

2. For another company to offer what Fractal does isn't a reality. Other companies don't operate like Fractal Audio does. Cliff kind of has his own business model in many ways. He's built a system that gives him a lot of flexibility to make advanced changes, whereas other companies' products have many limitations that prevent a level of growth/expansion that introduces new things that surprise and go beyond expectation.
 
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Well said. Must have taken a while to write that novel. 😄
But, in all seriousness I agree... having 3 generations of FAS modelers (Ultra, II XL+, and now the III MKII). I too got started here since 2008. The improvements Cliff and company have made thru the years exceeded all my expectations, and continues to do so. The best by far IMO
 
Well said. Must have taken a while to write that novel. 😄
But, in all seriousness I agree... having 3 generations of FAS modelers (Ultra, II XL+, and now the III MKII). I too got started here since 2008. The improvements Cliff and company have made thru the years exceeded all my expectations, and continues to do so. The best by far IMO
It actually didn't take me that long simply because everything I wrote, I've had on my mind for a very long time. I have many more thoughts about using Fractal Audio Technology but what I wrote are the most potent things that live on the surface.

The time that has passed since first getting aboard the Fractal Audio train has helped me understand the value of committing to this system. Knowing what it's really like to be a part of something where you don't feel like you need to or want a change. Humans have become consumer machines, always hunting for the new product to buy that is going to make things "better" and most of us, including myself can talk about the latest greatest gear until we are blue in the face. My experience with amp simulators started with the Hughes & Kettner Tubeman and then the SansAmp Classic, then the PSA-1 rack preamp, then the red kidney bean POD. There was a time when I figured that the amp simulation market would always have some new company emerging, making the latest greatest thing because historically, that's how things were going. With effects, I thought that it would forever be an area owned by the holy trinity - Lexicon/Eventide/TC electronic.

Fractal Audio was very disruptive technology when it first came out because it challenged all of the established history of amp simulation and effects. I think Larry Mitchell was really the very first real pro level player who adopted the technology. Most of the people who are known for using Fractal Audio Technology today were nowhere to be found in the first 5 years of the companies' developments. Pros are very slow to shift away from established norms. (Except for Vernon Reid. I swear he owns every guitar pedal, rack unit and anything else ever made for guitar)

And here we are today and Fractal is the undisputed leader whether the sales indicate that or not. Every company is using Fractal as the benchmark target to hit. As soon as anything new comes along that tries to compete with it, up go the YouTube videos comparing it to the latest Fractal Technology.

The Perspective for me is that this is proven technology that anyone can make a permanent commitment to. That commitment becomes an investment in yourself because the more you work with this technology and master it, the more it becomes a seamless part of you and your art.
Besides your guitars and other instruments, go though your gear and tell us what pieces of digital technology truly allow you to develop your own artistic style, voice and sound and will continue to allow you to grow and develop further with it for the next decade? What other piece of gear will complete it's life cycle and get replaced with a new version that allows you to carry on from where you left off without having to learn an entire new way of doing things but that makes your established workflow more efficient?
 
Excellent writeup! Always neat to hear long term users comments on using this great piece of gear!

I'm the complete opposite! I tried everything but Fractal because I fell for all of the "waiting list for a year" crap which actually wasn't all that accurate at all. I listened to a few people who told me to avoid the product because of their forums which were full of negative individuals who would chastise you if you weren't a minion. I found out otherwise by actually checking in here.

This was the furthest thing from the truth! So many helpful folks here!

Sure there were some delays, etc. along the way but it was all communicated and understood. I finally moved into the III back in 2018 when that announcement first came up. 3 months later, I had an incredible piece of gear that was constantly updated and tweaked and continued to sound better and have more and more features each year. I moved to a Mk II unit and will probably now grab a Turbo at some point soon. I already have an FM3 that I use every week for rehearsals and now some live work as well.

Words cannot express how much I enjoy these units and their features but most of all the tone I get from them. The updates and changes are all what I consider a bonus. I've never had so many options all in one box.
 
It actually didn't take me that long simply because everything I wrote, I've had on my mind for a very long time. I have many more thoughts about using Fractal Audio Technology but what I wrote are the most potent things that live on the surface.

The time that has passed since first getting aboard the Fractal Audio train has helped me understand the value of committing to this system. Knowing what it's really like to be a part of something where you don't feel like you need to or want a change. Humans have become consumer machines, always hunting for the new product to buy that is going to make things "better" and most of us, including myself can talk about the latest greatest gear until we are blue in the face. My experience with amp simulators started with the Hughes & Kettner Tubeman and then the SansAmp Classic, then the PSA-1 rack preamp, then the red kidney bean POD. There was a time when I figured that the amp simulation market would always have some new company emerging, making the latest greatest thing because historically, that's how things were going. With effects, I thought that it would forever be an area owned by the holy trinity - Lexicon/Eventide/TC electronic.

Fractal Audio was very disruptive technology when it first came out because it challenged all of the established history of amp simulation and effects. I think Larry Mitchell was really the very first real pro level player who adopted the technology. Most of the people who are known for using Fractal Audio Technology today were nowhere to be found in the first 5 years of the companies' developments. Pros are very slow to shift away from established norms. (Except for Vernon Reid. I swear he owns every guitar pedal, rack unit and anything else ever made for guitar)

And here we are today and Fractal is the undisputed leader whether the sales indicate that or not. Every company is using Fractal as the benchmark target to hit. As soon as anything new comes along that tries to compete with it, up go the YouTube videos comparing it to the latest Fractal Technology.

The Perspective for me is that this is proven technology that anyone can make a permanent commitment to. That commitment becomes an investment in yourself because the more you work with this technology and master it, the more it becomes a seamless part of you and your art.
Besides your guitars and other instruments, go though your gear and tell us what pieces of digital technology truly allow you to develop your own artistic style, voice and sound and will continue to allow you to grow and develop further with it for the next decade? What other piece of gear will complete it's life cycle and get replaced with a new version that allows you to carry on from where you left off without having to learn an entire new way of doing things but that makes your established workflow more efficient?
Yes. I had the Marshall JMP-1 preamp and the Rocktron Intellifex when they came out, then the Roland GP-100 for years. I’ve also worked with the Line 6 pod sometimes years ago when I engineered.
The level of improvements that we have now with modelers like FAS (and some others like the Helix) has gone light years ahead of the things we had to work with then.
 
Yes. I had the Marshall JMP-1 preamp and the Rocktron Intellifex when they came out, then the Roland GP-100 for years. I’ve also worked with the Line 6 pod sometimes years ago when I engineered.
The level of improvements that we have now with modelers like FAS (and some others like the Helix) has gone light years ahead of the things we had to work with then.
Indeed. We are extremely lucky to have this amount of power to bend to our will.

I had the Intellifex, Rocktron Prophesy II, Marshall JMP-1, Roland GP-8 and GP-100, Alesis Quadraverb GT, ADA MP-1, Digitech GSP2120, V-Stack... so many that I forget all of them!
 
Great post Bob G. Completely agree.... if you're gonna reap everything the Fractal products have to offer, you have to commit. For some, including me, that ain't exactly easy, mostly due to many struggles (and diminishing returns) over the years with the likes of Boss, Roland, Korg, and Rocktron. But in the end, I have found a workflow that doesn't get in the way too much, and I have all of the routing flexibility and tone I could ever need. Until we get USB ports installed in our skulls, there will always be a struggle between ease of use and feature depth for any worthwhile technology.

Maybe that last statement is a thinly veiled feature request.
 
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