Part III: Smilefan Patch Thread

this is wonderful! Printing all these terrific explanations and "tips" from the thread, putting into a 3 ring binder and keeping close at hand when tone tweaking time comes!
 
I just spent the last two hours or so reading your posts and I cant believe how incredibly helpful they are .Cliff should include your threads in the official Axe 2 manual. A must read for sure ... Thanks
Ditto on the 3 ring binder
 
TUTORIAL:
THE AMPLIFIER “ADVANCED” PAGE – PT. 2
MASTERING YOUR MACHINE

TONE LOCATION – Determines the location of the tonestack in the amp circuit. “Pre” puts the stack
at the beginning of the preamp circuit, “Post”, at the end of the preamp circuit, “Mid” puts it between
the two final triode stages (which we have also in our Advanced menu- Triodes 1 & 2 Plate Freq.),
and “End” which puts it after the Power amp (impossible in the real world). The farther upstream
you position your stack, the thinner the sound. “Mid” setting will sound chunkiest, with “End” being
rather dark. In real amps, Fenders Blackface’s, and Mesa Boogie “Marks” have their stacks “Pre”, Fender
Tweeds, Marshall’s, Vox’s, Hiwatt’s, and Mesa Recto’s are “Post” position, while Dumbles are in the
“Mid” position.

POWER TUBE BIAS – This is one of the most important Advanced page controls, and all programmers
should be familiar with the sonic effect it has. It ranges from 0.000 (pure Class B operation) to 1.000
(pure Class A operation). “Class A” is an ancient and very inefficient (but great sounding) amp design
which, essentially puts out full power at all times (even at idle). “Class B” is what is generally used in
modern amps, a much more efficient design which pushes and pulls current between two power tubes
(Push-Pull), with no current draw at idle. The important part for us is the sound. Cranking the setting
towards 0.000 will seem to thin out the gain, and pull the amp’s sound back in the sonic picture. The closer
to 1.000 (Class A), the more gain-y and forward the amp will sound. Modern amp designs tend to set
the power tube bias very low (to lower the strain on the power tubes, and extend their service life, and
reliability). Vintage amps tended to have their bias set much higher (and, correspondingly, were less
reliable, like the highly flammable Vox AC30).

Ok, that’s enough for today. Back soon with more “Advanced” page obsessions!

Excellent advice, I have some pedantic comments though, which do not affect how useful your advice is:

I don't know if any guitar amps work in class B, I think it's either AB (e.g. Fender Twin) or A (Single ended ones mostly, one-valve Champs, etc)

HRM Dumbles have 2 tonestacks. I mention this in the hope that this might appear in the Mk2
The Dumbles effectively have not an extra gain stage as might be expected, but instead something more like a simple little fuzz/OD circuit - with drive and volume controls, done with valves. I would like to see this in the Mk2
Also the HRM models have a tonestack just after this (this is all in the preamp, before the phase inverter)

There's a few myths around AC30s, which interest tube geeks like me:
In fact, Class A amps can be push/pull too.Even more surprising is that the AC30 is not class A, see: Is the Vox AC-30 really class A?
The AC30, DC30, etc are all push-pull.
The reason class A amps are inefficient is they don't use all the power of the tubes - they never cease passing a signal throughout the full positive and negative phases of the signal, so without explaining the maths, this is less efficient than AB, and the max you can get from 4 x EL84 is 20W
Matchless say the DC30 is true class A, and puts out 30w, which sounds odd, so from this, the DC30 must either be class A and 20w, or AB and 30W.
The amazing sound of the AC30s, and DC30s is more down to the design being so different to all the other, USA-designed amps of the era, including (high) cathode bias and an EF86. Fender moved on from cathode bias around this time
(Plenty of other designs deviated from the American ideas but were not popular, or are less well-known. The most memorable for me are the Watkins Westminster and Dominator amps)
 
By any chance are you familiar with a band from I think the 80's call brother cane . If so can you offer any advice on achieving the tone . They seem to use some type of chorus or filter quite a bit on the rythem sound that just makes it sound huge . Any help or advice is greatly appreciated

I recall reading a guitar mag in the 90's where Damon Johnson said he was using a
Stereo Fulltone Dejavibe. That sounds right to my ears. Especially at the beginning
of "And Fools Shine On". You can hear a strong Rotovibe/Univibe device set with a fast
Rate to get a rotary speaker sound (which the Univibe was originally intended to copy):

Brother Cane - And Fools Shine On - YouTube

I made a "Stereo Dejavibe" patch as well, to give you the general idea of how to go after that sound.
Hope this helps.

EDIT: 01/23/2012 re-EQ'ed to bring out the effect more clearly.
 

Attachments

  • Stereo Dejavibe.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 75
Last edited:
Excellent advice, I have some pedantic comments though, which do not affect how useful your advice is:

I don't know if any guitar amps work in class B, I think it's either AB (e.g. Fender Twin) or A (Single ended ones mostly, one-valve Champs, etc)

You are correct, and I have edited my tutorial accordingly (trying not to be over-technical).
Pure Class B and Class AB amps are nearly the same operation except that in Class AB
a small bit of current operates opposite the main waveform in the push-pull function.

Wiki-speak:
"In class-AB operation, each device operates the same way as in class B over half the waveform, but also conducts a small amount on the other half."
 
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You are correct, and I have edited my tutorial accordingly (trying not to be over-technical). Pure Class B and Class AB amps are nearly
the same operation except that in Class AB a small bit of current operates opposite the main waveform in the push-pull function.

Wiki-speak:
"In class-AB operation, each device operates the same way as in class B over half the waveform, but also conducts a small amount on the other half."

okey doke, just spreading the bits of info I have a grasp on... :)

I am interested to speculate whether a cathode bias switch or a dumble HRM OD stage might appear one day in the mk2

Cheers
Tone
 
I recall reading a guitar mag in the 90's where Damon Johnson said he was using a Stereo Fulltone Dejavibe. That sounds right to my ears.
Especially at the beginning of "And Fools Shine On". You can hear a strong Rotovibe/Univibe device set with a fast Rate to get a rotary speaker
sound (which the Univibe was originally intended to copy), below:

Brother Cane - And Fools Shine On - YouTube

I made a "Stereo Dejavibe" patch as well, to give you the general idea of how to go after that sound.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info and the patch ,greatly appreciated !
 
okey doke, just spreading the bits of info I have a grasp on... :)

I am interested to speculate whether a cathode bias switch or a dumble HRM OD stage might appear one day in the mk2

Cheers
Tone

I would love to see the Dumble HRM model added. I have a Ceriatone Clone of that amp. Although I get close with the Axe, (very close) I still love what I can do with the HRM.
 
SteelStingSinger.jpg

John Mayer's Dumble Steel String Singer

Forum members, Smilefan and AustinBuddy present Fractal Audio Forum firsts!
A full patch collaboration between two of the experienced patchmakers on this
Board, plus the first patch designed to take full advantage of Firmware 5.0 sonics!

AustinBuddy and I got to talking about a very famous amp. The Dumble
Steel String Singer. We discovered, we both have heard the real thing,
up close and personal (a rare thing since there are no more than 20-30 in the
world). So we reasoned, we were the right guys to try to make a patch
of this seldom seen unicorn.

Alexander Dumble, for those that don’t know, has been building custom
amps for a select clientele since the late ‘70’s (you have to send him a tape
of your work, to see if he will accept your order!). Known as a reclusive genius,
he has made only about 300 Dumble amps in total. Most are celebrity owned.
One of his models is designed specifically to make incredible rich, giant clean tones
-- the 100W (or 150W w/6550 tubes) Steel String Singer. The amp designer himself says:

“Then there is the Steel String Singer series, which is a real magic amplifier! I made it for that
because it’s exactly what it does, it just singsss... with a very nice glassy steely kind of tone.
And it’s one of those amplifiers that it’s so lucious it plays itself and you just want to play it.
”Mr. Dumble also notes the Dumbleland amp was a forerunner to the Steel String Singer, saying
“it was too much power and too silky clean for people. It’s perfect for Stevie Ray, though.
He has a hard time playing an Overdrive (Special).”

I was lucky enough to watch David Lindley (Jackson Browne’s guitarist) play one
right in front of me. It sounded like someone had stuffed two primo Blackface
Twin chassis’ into the same head cabinet, then ran them out stereo into two 4x12 cabs.
Jackson Browne owns the #2 made Steel String Singer, and Lindley has #3 covered in snakeskin,
with 100 watts with 6L6s tubes.

AustinBuddy heard Stevie Ray Vaughan play his 150 watt Steel String Singer, dubbed the
“King Tone Consoul,” standing on the front of the stage (and could not hear much else as he tells it,
no drums or bass, just giant guitar sound through a 4 X 12 with EV 12Ls). Stevie supposedly owned
four of them. Howard Dumble in a 1985 interview had this to say about that amp:

“There are some different things about Stevie’s. His is set up more like bass amp, to accommodate
the guitar range. It’s not the usual lead guitar “singer” approach. One thing he liked was that he could
turn the volume control all the way up and it didn’t distort -- it just got louder. He does make it distort
sometimes because he has about 50 megatons of pressure when he attacks the strings (laughs). He gets an
incredible amount of signal out of his guitar, and most amplifiers can’t take it. He did his first album with a bass amp
I’d made for Jackson Browne.”

AustinBuddy’s take is that this is the greatest amp nobody’s ever heard (in person, as there are so few).
If you are a fan of cleaner guitar styles from the 70’s/80’s/90’s then you’ve heard one on record.
It’s just amazing how often these 20-30 amps have made it onto famous artist’s recordings, a testament
to how good they sound. Some well known SSS owners:

David Lindley – Session guitarist for Jackson Browne, James Taylor, Bob Dylan, Linda Rondstadt, Ry Cooder,
David Crosby, Graham Nash, Warren Zevon, Rod Stewart, Dolly Parton

Stevie Ray Vaughn

John Mayer

Lowell George

Sonny Landreth – solo slide legend and session player with Jimmy Buffet, John Hiatt, Eric Johnson, Eric Clapton,
and Mark Knopfler

Eric Johnson

Ben Harper

Dean Parks – Session guitarist for Steeley Dan, Rod Stewart, Michael Jackson (he played the melody line on “Beat It”),
Madonna, Stevie Wonder, Elton John, Paul Simon, and Kenny Loggins.

AustinBuddy and myself feel this is the best representation of a Dumble “Steel String Singer” that the Axe II is currently
able to produce. You will get to hear the new remodelled 5.0 Enhancer Block in action in this patch. There is also an
optional Fulldrive OD and Univibe that sound great together. Turn this up! Steel String Singers are incredibly loud, clean,
powerful amps, more fit for stadiums than clubs. Enjoy!

EDIT: 02/15/2012 Snuck in two new patches. Robben Ford's Dumble "Overdrive Special"
Clean & Dirty tones. These are my mixes of a Robben Ford patch that my good friend, Austinbuddy, and myself worked on. The Clean tone sounds especially accurate.
 

Attachments

  • Steel String Singer 5.0.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 210
  • Robben Ford ODS clean.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 74
  • Robben Ford ODS dirty.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 74
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Great sounding Steel String patch, but man does it ever clip on my setup even with your output level at -13.6!!!! Anywhere you suggest to cut some level without destroying the tone? I cut back about 10db's on the amp level to get the clip light to stop coming on, but it doesn't sound quite as awesome......
 
SteelStingSinger.jpg

John Mayer's Dumble Steel String Singer

Forum members, Smilefan and AustinBuddy present Fractal Audio Forum firsts!
A full patch collaboration between two of the experienced patchmakers on this
Board, plus the first patch designed to take full advantage of Firmware 5.0 sonics!

AustinBuddy and I got to talking about a very famous amp. The Dumble
Steel String Singer. We discovered, we both have heard the real thing,
up close and personal (a rare thing since there are no more than 20-30 in the
world). So we reasoned, we were the right guys to try to make a patch
of this seldom seen unicorn.

Alexander Dumble, for those that don’t know, has been building custom
amps for a select clientele since the late ‘70’s (you have to send him a tape
of your work, to see if he will accept your order!). Known as a reclusive genius,
he has made only about 300 Dumble amps in total. Most are celebrity owned.
One of his models is designed specifically to make incredible rich, giant clean tones
-- the 100W (or 150W w/6550 tubes) Steel String Singer. The amp designer himself says:

“Then there is the Steel String Singer series, which is a real magic amplifier! I made it for that because it’s exactly what it does, it just singsss... with a very nice glassy steely kind of tone. And it’s one of those amplifiers that it’s so lucious it plays itself and you just want to play it.
”Mr. Dumble also notes the Dumbleland amp was a forerunner to the Steel String Singer, saying
“it was too much power and too silky clean for people. It’s perfect for Stevie Ray, though.
He has a hard time playing an Overdrive (Special).”

I was lucky enough to watch David Lindley (Jackson Browne’s guitarist) play one
right in front of me. It sounded like someone had stuffed two primo Blackface
Twin chassis’ into the same head cabinet, then ran them out stereo into two 4x12 cabs.
Jackson Browne owns the #2 made Steel String Singer, and Lindley has #3 covered in snakeskin, with 100 watts with 6L6s tubes.

AustinBuddy heard Stevie Ray Vaughan play his 150 watt Steel String Singer, dubbed the “King Tone Consoul,” standing on the front of the stage (and could not hear much else as he tells it,
no drums or bass, just giant guitar sound through a 4 X 12 with EV 12Ls). Stevie supposedly owned four of them. Howard Dumble in a 1985 interview had this to say about that amp:

“There are some different things about Stevie’s. His is set up more like bass amp, to accommodate the guitar range. It’s not the usual lead guitar “singer” approach. One thing he liked was that he could turn the volume control all the way up and it didn’t distort -- it just got louder. He does make it distort sometimes because he has about 50 megatons of pressure when he attacks the strings (laughs). He gets an incredible amount of signal out of his guitar, and most amplifiers can’t take it. He did his first album with a bass amp I’d made for Jackson Browne.”

AustinBuddy’s take is that this is the greatest amp nobody’s ever heard (in person, as there are so few). If you are a fan of cleaner guitar styles from the 70’s/80’s/90’s then you’ve heard one on record. It’s just amazing how often these 20-30 amps have made it onto famous artist’s recordings, a testament to how good they sound. Some well known SSS owners:

David Lindley – Session guitarist for Jackson Browne, James Taylor, Bob Dylan, Linda Rondstadt, Ry Cooder, David Crosby, Graham Nash, Warren Zevon, Rod Stewart, Dolly Parton

Stevie Ray Vaughn

John Mayer

Lowell George

Sonny Landreth – solo slide legend and session player with Jimmy Buffet, John Hiatt, Eric Johnson, Eric Clapton, and Mark Knopfler

Eric Johnson

Ben Harper

Dean Parks – Session guitarist for Steeley Dan, Rod Stewart, Michael Jackson (he played the melody line on “Beat It”), Madonna, Stevie Wonder, Elton John, Paul Simon, and Kenny Loggins.

AustinBuddy and myself feel this is the best representation of a Dumble “Steel String Singer” that the Axe II is currently able to produce. You will get to hear our new remodelled 5.0 Enhancer Block in action in this patch. There is also an optional Fulldrive OD and Univibe that sound great together. Turn this up! Steel String Singers are incredibly loud, clean, powerful amps, more fit for stadiums than clubs. Enjoy!

EDIT: My public gratitude to Austinbuddy, without whom neither
this patch nor writeup could have happened.

Excellent, can't wait to test at the weekend
Btw ceriatone are releasing a SSS clone, I assume it will be close enough to please anyone needing a physical valve amp who hasn't got $50000 spare
 
Wow! Thanks--Sonny Landreth and EJ are two of my favorites--didn't know this amp had so much to do with their tone. Can't wait to try it. Thanks so much.

For some reason I can't get your presets--the MIDI lights up on the AXE ii but nothing changes. I can get other presets and firmware fine using M-Audio uno straight to Axe. I don't use edit because I'm on an old MAC PPC. I use SysEx.
 
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Great sounding Steel String patch, but man does it ever clip on my setup even with your output level at -13.6!!!!
+1. Awesome patch smilefan and Austinbuddy! It realy rings.

But man, the levels are hot! It still clips the output after I bypass every block in the patch, including the amp. I'm scratching my head, but picking very lightly. :)
 
Clipping follow-up:

I just noticed something funny. I was auditioning the patch via Import from Axe-Edit. The layout on the Axe's screen was identical to the layout of the patch that smilefan just laid on us, but the amp type was "Wrecker." That's the same amp type as the patch that I had recalled before auditioning the Steel String Singer patch. In other words, Axe-Edit loaded the layout from the patch, but not its amp type. Weird.

I re-sent the audition command, and now there's just the tiniest bit of clipping. All is as it should be.
 
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Wow! Thanks--Sonny Landreth and EJ are two of my favorites--didn't know this amp had so much to do with their tone. Can't wait to try it. Thanks so much.

For some reason I can't get your presets--the MIDI lights up on the AXE ii but nothing changes. I can get other presets and firmware fine using M-Audio uno straight to Axe. I don't use edit because I'm on an old MAC PPC. I use SysEx.

Hey--just discovered that the downloaded preset popped up on my Axe at the ooo spot instead of the preset number where I was trying to put it...anyway--got it--love it--thanks so much...
 
Really like the steel string patch with my my steel guitar! When I loaded it up I noticed that cab2 was set to Y; I'm not sure whether that was an AxeEdit issue or if it was set to Y in the preset.
 
Smile, why did you use the fender amps instead of the Dumble for this pre set? It is good tho!

I tried like hell to get it to work with the stock Dumble clean, but that's based on an Overdrive Special and just doesn't
have the girth of frequency response anywhere near the real Steel String Singer I heard. Only the Twin model got me close,
so that's what I used.
 
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