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Part III: Smilefan Patch Thread

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Yeah, Neil loves that Tweed .... Course we will then need a Magnatone, a Whizzer .... etc.

Maybe Neil could loan out one of his hundreds of Deluxes to be sampled ......
Oh heck and why not clone Old Black too? :)

The Whizzer doesn't seem to have anything to do with the guitar tone but it is cool as can be :)

Richard
 

VegasGuitar

Experienced
That's all English equipment he's using from when he played with Free (he took Paul Kossoff's place). A Plexi or early Metal
Panel 100W, and probably a Colorsound overdrive and a Vox wah from the sound of it, with a Les Paul. There are alot of patches out there similar to this that could be tweaked to get very close.

If you take my "Early Journey" patch and replaced the Hiwatt with a Plexi Normal model, change the Tape Dist to a Tube Driver,
Drive-50%, Level-75%, you'll be very close if you tweak the Drive Hi & Lo Cut. That 'pinched' EQ effect is from putting the Wah after the drive pedal and just leaving it on in an engaged position (a 'cocked' wah).

I hesitate to post a bunch more patches as each Forum member has an 'attachment' allowance of 1MB, and I'm up over 800KB already!
Plus I want this to be more about helping others with their patches.
Smilefan,

Great reply. It is your insight and aural knowledge that we should be making use of in this thread, part III. Your suggestions don't eat up cloud space that is limited. I appreciate your experience in all things of Tone.

Your feedback is even better than a patch/preset, because know we can all learn the magic that you do!!

Thanks! As once said, I gotta lotta more!! :razz :lol
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master


I was going to give you nice easy instructions to make this by modding my '58 Tweed Deluxe patch,
but Neil's tone is just too unique. So you get what I said I wasn't going to do, a patch.
The tone in the video is more metallic. It would take tweaking a PEQ for an hour to nail that
high treble string-y overtone. But this gets you in the ballpark of the feel of that damn Tweed Deluxe
of his.

Nailing this is mostly in the SPKR and EQ pages of the amp model. Which I planned to do some tutorials
on in the future. In short it, would take too long to explain without doing a full write-up, so you get a patch.
This took some advanced tweaking on the SPKR, EQ, and ADV pages. If you could see the stock Deluxe setting
compared to how many parameters I changed, it would make you dizzy. Still, I encourage all to take a look,
especially at the SPKR response curve. This is a very powerful amp sculpting tool that I don't think anyone is
messing with yet. We're about to change that.
THANKS! We have a 4mo old baby in the house so my time in the studio is spotty but I will audition this patch and followup!

I saw your other Tweed Deluxe patch, but as you just said, it was not a simple tweak, at least for me :), to get the Neil tone... excited to try this!!

Tutorials on the Spkr page would be great!!!

Richard
 

smilefan

Experienced


Forum member, Barhrecords, did this! He got me thinking about Neil Young.
Now I have to do a full post. And once again you get a patch. But this patch
is really versatile and great-sounding, so its worth giving some of my remaining
attachment space for.

I know you younger readers are wondering why us old farts are so high on an old
hairy hippie, with a crazy look in his eyes, that sings like a girl. It’s not because he’s
a mind-blowing guitar player, but because his career as a songwriter/artist/musician is on
par with the Beatles!

He is a direct living link to the ‘troubadours’ of the ’30-‘40’s. The wandering
singer/songwriters of the Great Depression, like Woody Guthrie, who inspired
Bob Dylan to change the face of Popular music. Like them, the central theme of Neil’s
career has been, that the whole reason to pick up a guitar in the first place, is to write
a simple song about something that matters. And he has done that like few others.

In the late ‘60’s a music style known as “Folk Rock” emerged and became massively
popular. Neil was on the ground floor of this music explosion being a founding member
of the band, Buffalo Springfield. Thereafter, he moved on to join the already famous
trio of Crosby, Stills, and Nash. During Neil’s tenure with that group, CSN&Y achieved
super-star status. Some of the old timers on this Board can tell you just how famous,
respected, and mega-popular these guys were at that time. You had to be there
(playing their live album, "Four Way Street" for a girl, stood a good chance of getting you laid).

After internal tensions imploded CSN&Y, Neil went on to form the legendary group,
Crazy Horse. His work with them created the sonic template that became “Grunge”
in the mid-‘90’s. Widely known as “The Godfather of Grunge”, many stars of that
scene, notably Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain openly acknowledged him as
their primary influence.

His list of great recordings is staggering (34 studio albums). A partial list of his well-known songs:

Sugar Mountain
The Loner (a staple of his live shows)
Cinnamon Girl
Down By The River
Cowgirl in the Sand
Ohio (one of the greatest protest songs ever written)
Southern Man
The Needle and the Damage Done (one of the greatest anti-drug songs ever written)
Old Man
Heart of Gold
Hey Hey My My (Into the Black) (contains some of the most heavily quoted lyrics of all time)
Cortez The Killer
This Note’s For You
Rockin’ in the Free World


Fascinating Neil Young facts:

He has been inducted into the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame twice.
(once solo, once with Buffalo Springfield)

He owns a Martin D-28 acoustic, that is the actual Martin played by Country music
icon, Hank Williams (seems his son, Hank Jr., sold his father’s priceless gear to buy shotguns).

He played in a band with future funk-master, Rick James, in his early career (The Mynah Birds)

The video for his 1988 hit, “This Note’s For You” was banned by MTV for disparaging
some of the network’s sponsors. Neil then wrote them a very public letter asking if
the “M” in MTV stood for “Music”, or “Money”!

Legendary southern rock group, Lynryd Skynryd, wrote the following lyrics in their
massive hit, “Sweet Home Alabama”, directly to Neil in response to his scathing indictment
of Deep South racism in his songs “Southern Man” & "Alabama":

"Well, I heard Mr. Young sing about her
Well, I heard ol' Neil put her down
Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
A Southern man don't need him around anyhow"

GEAR!
Us geeky guitar players must talk about gear and Neil’s is very interesting.

Guitars: Neil used Gretsch “Chet Atkins” and “White Falcon” hollowbody
electrics in Buffalo Springfield and early solo career. The guitar he is most associated with
is a 1953 Les Paul goldtop, with an amateur black paintjob, known as “Old Black”.
The guitar has a vintage Gibson Firebird pickup, retro-fitted in the bridge. It is microphonic as hell,
and is directly responsible for the string-y, metallic tones, and feedback you hear on his recordings
with Crazy Horse.

Amplifiers: Neil has a massive collection of vintage amps, including over 400 vintage
Fender Tweed Deluxes! Incredibly, he bases his whole live tone on one very special
sounding Tweed Deluxe, upon which sits a custom-made device, called ‘The Whizzer’,
which mechanically turns the amp’s knobs to preset positions. Like a primitive
MIDI switcher.

Also, in his live rig, he feeds a direct line out from the Deluxe to a Magnatone amp.
A warm-sounding vintage amp that has true pitch-shift vibrato (vs. Fender’s volume trem).
You may remember in Pt. I of this thread I did a patch called “True Vibrato” based on
the Magnatone sound.

Hope you like the patches. The "Neil Young Rig" features a hot-biased Tweed Deluxe model
in parallel with my Magnatone model (featuring stereo pitch vibrato!) from the “True Vibrato” patch. They are connected to a Mixer block. Channel 1 is the Tweed, Channel 3 is the Magnatone. You get to mix them as you please, or isolate each amp. Try each by itself, they both sound great. When you combine the two, you’ll get distortion textures very reminiscent of Neil’s work with Crazy Horse.

These patches respond extremely well to volume knob manipulation. Try turning your bridge
PU volume to the ‘2-3’ area for rhythm, then crank to ‘10’ for leads.

EDIT: 02/13/2012 - Sneaky edit. New patch here for those paying attention.
"Touch Sensitive Tweed" is a new patch, created directly A/B'ing against a real
vintage Tweed Deluxe. I out-did myself here. Best dynamic response I've ever
dialed in.
 

Attachments

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barhrecords

Axe-Master
Loving the homage to Neil!

A couple of other quirks about Neil... his rig has included six Peterson Strobe tuners one for each string... he also extensively explored the vocoder.

Rust never sleeps!
Richard
 

vAmp

Fractal Fanatic
smilefan said:
(playing their live album, "Four Way Street" for a girl, stood a good chance of getting you laid).
All four sides? Wow, you guys sure had patience in those days! Maybe the pot helped some there? ;)
Nowadays we just use http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ and get it over with!
Hint: this doesn't work every time though :razz

OK people... The joke has been made, please don't derail this thread any further :oops:)
 

cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
By far my favorite musician! Seen him solo and with most his bands well over 40 times. If he’s in town, I’m there.

Is he the most talented guitar player? No. Does he shred the fret board with lightning speed? No. Does he play with heart, soul, and emotion? A resounding YES! But as Smile noted, it’s his songwriting skills that puts him over the top. You would be hard pressed to find anyone more relevant over a longer period of time. What really amazes me about that is he never just went for the easy sell. He stayed true to his craft and if he felt like going in a completely opposite direction following a commercially successful release, he simply did without any regard to consequences.

I was at a CSNY reunion concert about 5 years ago at Staples (200 dollars a ticket btw. Arrrrgh! I saw them in the early 70’s for 6 dollars a ticket). Anyway, Graham Nash gets up and starts describing what they are going to do for the evening and to paraphrase says: “We have a great show for you. We have a huge assortment of hits to pull from. Steven, David, and myself have written a handful of great hits over the years and Neal has about 500. So here we go…”

I could go on for days! Sorry for the hijack. As a closer, if anyone is interested there is a great autobiography out now called Shakey. Great read!

A snippet from the book about his tweed deluxe(s):

"Neil's got four hundred and fifty-six identical Deluxes. They sound nothing like this one." Young runs the amp with oversized tubes, and Cragg has to keep portable fans trained on the back so it doesn't melt down. "It really is ready to just go up in smoke, and it sounds that way flat-out, overdriven, ready to self-destruct."


Here is treasure trove of Neil info:

http://thrasherswheat.org

Review of book from above site:

Book Review: Shakey - Neil Young Biography

Again, sorry for the hijack Smilefan. I get excited! Off to try these patches out!!!


Old Black:


The Whizzer:
 
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austinbuddy

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
SmileFan,

Great work on the "Secrets of the Drive pedals" (I paraphrase)... Everyone should experiment and get familiar with these super tools as you suggest. Can't add a thing to that based on my own experimenting and learned a good bit more from you. Clean boosts into some amps change everything. The FET drive used right can truly "warm up" a guitar sound, just like an old recorded tube amp w/compression sounds.

we are so luck to have such powerful tools all built into the AXE FX II, and also lucky to have you as our "Jedi-Yoda" instructing us on the ways of the AXE-Force!

Glad to hear the Speaker curve tool tutorial is coming down the road from you, Cliff himself has stated what a very powerful tone shaper that is....
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I think a boutique 59' Fender Tweed Deluxe amp model (5E3 circuit) is appropriate.

There really is nothing quite like it in the Axe II.

I think the Tungsten Cortez amplifier outfitted with same tube compliment as Neil Young's would be a great model.

Richard
 
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cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
I think a boutique 59' Fender Tweed Deluxe amp model (5E3 circuit) is appropriate.

There really is nothing quite like it in the Axe II.

I think the Tungsten Cortez amplifier outfitted with same tube compliment as Neil Young's would be a great model.

Richard
Would love that!
 

LMO

Fractal Fanatic
I recommend that smilefan be allocated extra space for uploading attachments.

OTOH, for the older patches that are available zipped, there really is no need to keep going back and updating all those posts every time you update the patches; just delete those and point readers to the zipped files.
 

VegasGuitar

Experienced
I recommend that smilefan be allocated extra space for uploading attachments.

OTOH, for the older patches that are available zipped, there really is no need to keep going back and updating all those posts every time you update the patches; just delete those and point readers to the zipped files.
I second the motion!! +2
 
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cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
I recommend that smilefan be allocated extra space for uploading attachments.

OTOH, for the older patches that are available zipped, there really is no need to keep going back and updating all those posts every time you update the patches; just delete those and point readers to the zipped files.
HA! He had just told me in a PM today he is running out of attachment space and I was going to post the same.

I wholeheartedly second this motion!!!!
 

smilefan

Experienced
TUTORIAL:
AMP MODEL SPEAKER IMPEDANCE PAGE -
THE PROGRAMMER’S PAINT BRUSH

I have noticed in the patches I see posted on the Board that few are
delving into the mysteries of the SPKR ‘impedance’ page on the amp models.
I have even read a few mention that they didn’t want to mess with those
settings. Nonsense. We are going to turn everyone here into fearless
patch programmers. Bold and reckless explorers of the Black Box!

Impedance is the electrical characteristics of the amp/speaker hardware that restricts
the flow of power to the speaker. Impedance is a complex issue. When you see an
“8 ohm” speaker, that’s a great oversimplification. A speaker’s impedance is different
at different frequencies. As a speaker’s impedance changes, it changes the task of the amp,
asking for more or less current flow. The greater the impedance, the more current and voltage
are required from the amp to drive the speaker. This interaction has a great effect on sound and
performance.

The controls you have on page 3 of the Amp model Blocks function like an integrated 3 band
Parametric EQ. Except it allows you to precisely tailor the output impedance of amp to the speakers at
a wide range of frequencies. There are two major areas where output impedance affects the way a
loudspeaker sounds. Frequency response and controlling the motion of the speaker cone.
So variations in output impedance produce a noticeable affect on what frequencies the amp’s tonal and
drive characteristics will be displayed thru the speaker, and the playing feel of the amp thru the
motion of the speaker cone.

HOW TO CONTROL THE CURVE SHAPE:
The 3 bands, Lo, Mid, and Hi, give you to ability to create 3 distinct peaks
(or a valley in the Mid band) in the amp’s impedance output. You can make 3 peaks,
and determine their sharpness/ width, height, and position. Or you can run any or
all of the peaks into each other and create a ‘hill’ shape.

The Lo/Mid/Hi Res Freq controls the position of the peaks.
Lo ranges from 40-400Hz
Med ranges from 100-10000Hz
Hi ranges from 4000-40000Hz
Lo/Mid/Hi Res Q – The “Q” control is what allows you to shape
your peaks/valleys. The control ranges from 0.100-10.0. A value
of 0.10 gives you the broadest peak, getting progressively sharper
as you approach 10.0, which gives a needle shaped peak.

Lo/Mid/Hi Resonance – This determines how high the peak will be.
It ranges from 0-10. The current manual doesn’t say, but I’m guessing this means
we can boost the response of those peak up to 10dB’s. That’s a lot! In the Mid band only,
the resonance ranges from -6db to +6db, giving you the ability to create a valley or peak
within the Mid band Res frequency range (100-10000Hz) of up to 6db.

THE PAY-OFF:
OK great, but what does all this techno speak do for me?
In real world patch programming, here are some samples of what
a knowledge of the SPKR page gives you the ability to do:

Make your clean Twin patch sound huge, crisp, and icy by bumping
up the Hi/Lo peaks, moving them farther apart, and creating a little Mid valley.

Make your Brad Paisley country-shred patch sound quick, snappy, and
defined by sharpening up the Lo peak, dropping its height, and raising its
resonant frequency position closer to the midrange.

Make your raging Fender Tweed distortion patch sound more like the real
thing in the room by running Lo/Mid/Hi peaks into one tall mid-peaked ‘hill’,
then jacking up its height until all you hear is roaring, sweet mids.

Get rid of the high frequency “buzz” in your monster Metal patch by re-positioning
the Hi peak position to the point where the buzz just becomes audible.

Dial up the low frequency “whomp” of your monster Metal patch by lowering the
“Q” value (thus broadening its peak) until the low end response starts to
rupture your eardrums.

It can help make your notes fat and edgeless, or crisp and ripping.

ACQUIRING SURGICAL SKILL(Z):
Ultimately, skill with the SPKR page is a listening art. Me telling you where to manipulate
the curve only makes ME a better programmer, not you. So I have devised a little
exercise give you both confidence to manipulate the curve, and personal experience
of how different curve shapes change your sound.
1. Guitar in hand, plugged into Axe (or Axe Edit), select a nice low-to-medium gain patch, and open up Pg. 3 of the Amp model (“Speaker” in Axe Edit).
2. Set Hi & Lo Resonance to 0.00, Mid to 0.0db. Now your curve is dead flat.
3. Set Lo Res Freq to 100Hz, Hi Res Freq to 10000Hz, Hi & Lo Res Q to 10.0. Now sweep both Lo & Hi “Resonance” from 0 to 10, string plucking as you go. Now you have 2 needle shaped peaks. Sweep both peaks full L &R with the Freq controls, playing as you go.
4. Now return the peaks to 100 and 10000Hz. Sweep both Hi & Lo “Q’s” from 10.0 to 0.10, then back to 10.0, playing as you go (Hi’s & Lo’s will get huge approaching 0.10).
5. Return Lo/Hi peaks to 100Hz/10000Hz. Set Mid Res Freq at 600Hz, Mid Q at 10. Sweep Mid Res to -6.0db (steep valley,) then to 6.0db (steep hill). Move it L & R with Mid Res Freq. Return Mid Res Freq to 600Hz. Now drop Mid Q from 10 to 0.10 (makes large scooped crater). Now sweep Mid Res to 6.0db (big hill shape).
6. Finally, lets make one single big hill. Set Lows= 400Hz Freq/0.420 Q/2.95 Res, Mids= 837Hz Freq/0.10 Q/4.42db Res, Highs= 4000Hz Freq/0.077 Q/0.00 Res. Now all our output impedance is focused in the mid band for a nice vintage-y tone. Wah Lah! You are now a SPRK page master!


Budding Programmer: I’d like to try editing the SPKR Pg., but I’m afraid
Fractal: Don’t be afraid
Smilefan: No. Be afraid. Be very afraid!
 

claudel

Experienced
I recommend that smilefan be allocated extra space for uploading attachments.

OTOH, for the older patches that are available zipped, there really is no need to keep going back and updating all those posts every time you update the patches; just delete those and point readers to the zipped files.
It'd be nice to allow attaching zip files on the board as well, but I can see where that could be problematic.
 

Sgt.Alexx

Inspired
You didn't specify what you are trying to achieve with this patch, so
a little hard to give advise if I don't know where you want to go. The stereo separation
is great. I gather the first Filter is to provide a switchable lead/rhythm capability.

Somewhat mystified by the two filter blocks at the end of the chain and their intended
purpose. The lower-most delay is way over the top, and should be dialed back to about an
18% mix. Overall, its a bit dark and needs a little crispness. Remedy this by moving the "Mic" selection
for all three speaker models from "NONE" to "RE16". This will give it a bit of 'cut', while not sacrificing
low end girth.

Sounded pretty damn good thru my system, with these mods.

If you are a fan of Heavy Rock sounds, you should check out Mark Day's thread.
He sets the bar on hard rock patches:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-preset-exchange/40603-mark-day-presets.html
I guess I didn't read the topic well enough and thought you wanted us to help creating part three! :)

You have a very different listening environment than me apparently. You will have to back off some high end when cracking this baby up through a PA. I play through my Genelecs in my studio in a very controlled environment. But as always the MMV and so on. Really appreciate the work you have done collecting a lot of cool patches!

One of the filters after the amps are a "radio" filter (think the beginning of The Darkness - I believe in a thing called love) and the other one is a plain mid boost for solos.

Keep up the good work!
 
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