Parameter Mods - SS-ified Jazz Bass models

I also noticed in the Cab, the Preamp Type is Modern. Change that to FET ! or FET II or none. That is probably why it sounds overdriven. The Tube preamp does add some tube distortion.But, the Modern isn't all that clean either.

Also the Graphic EQ on the Micro Boost is set to "Pre". So, you can use that to remove any Bass Before it hits the drive.
 
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Yes, that Subkick added a lot of bass. In the Drive block on the Tone page the Bass has been set to -7 dB. Set it to 0.

ok, did all that. the compressors are adding too much so shunted the 2 compressors, modified the drive block's bass, mid freq, reduced mids a tad, added some bass in the output eq, tried my bergantino and sl112 cabs with high pas at 16k. Sounds much better but...Compared to the bass mods 1 scene 1, still nasally.
 
I also noticed in the Cab, the Preamp Type is Modern. Change that to FET ! or FET II or none. That is probably why it sounds overdriven. The Tube preamp does add some tube distortion.But, the Modern isn't all that clean either.

Also the Graphic EQ on the Micro Boost is set to "Pre". So, you can use that to remove any Bass Before it hits the drive.

tried that, definitely helps. Switched the preamp type to none, also tried fet i and ii. Bottom line though is that the microblock introduces a nasal character to the tone that is not there with the modified jc120 block
 
Okay, that is good to know. I am just about to go to get some rest. Feel are to remove the compressors. I got your IR. So I will work with that later today. When I wake I will get your patch and the changes you have made and we will go from there. I am going to get back to the Jazz 120 and the Amps in general. But, I thought this might be cleaner and have more tone. You can also reduce the level at the input block if needed to prevent overdriving the MicroBoost.
 
Okay, I am sure i was running it with too much Bass to notice. Out of curiosity, bypass the Micro Boost and see if it is still nasally. And try setting sliders on the Graphic EQ. I also rolled off some Bass there.
 
No big deal if it doesn't work. Easy to move on. Also, post the Jazz 120 patch that you like. It is best for me to double-check for things I might have changed afterward.
 
Okay, I am sure i was running it with too much Bass to notice. Out of curiosity, bypass the Micro Boost and see if it is still nasally. And try setting sliders on the Graphic EQ. I also rolled off some Bass there.
much less nasally with drive bypassed, i also tried reducing the level at the input block. Definitely less gainy but I think micro boost is just nasally
 
i'm using this, scene 1 , i updated this to have 2 out blocks. 1 for recording to computer with cab block, the other for running into effect return of my amp setup but cab block not needed since I'm running through a real cab. It'd be nice if all the presets could be formatted similarly...
 

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  • jaz Bass Mods 1.1.syx
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I bypassed it and then noticed high pass was set to 2000 on the speaker so I set it to 16,000 and then the entire preset stopped working (silence). I tried setting the drive block back to in circuit but nothing. I think we ran into some type of FM3 bug....

I'm pretty sure if you set a high-pass to 16,000 that will get rid of everything your bass is putting out. (i.e., only "passing" anything above 16K)
 
@jzucker, here is the patch. Each scene is the same. The note intermodulation should be less. There is not much else to do with this amp model now except to discuss the mods so you can tune them in for your own ears. The string intermodulation limits how far we can go with several mods. Certain things actually make the PSU less stable and the PSU oscillations you don't hear modulate the notes that you do hear. See how presence and depth work for you. Getting some rest now. Catch you later.
 

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@stub, I notice you are a bass player. This a Jazz Bass patch you will have to provide the IR if you want to audition it. I am not a bass player. But, I am trying to create more Fractal Bass options for people who prefer the tighter cleaner SS sound. There are limits to what can be done, But, I am listening if you have some bass observations to share with me. I probably won't answer right now, going to sleep. But, I need useful input and I appreciate it. Later...
 
@jzucker, here is the patch. Each scene is the same. The note intermodulation should be less. There is not much else to do with this amp model now except to discuss the mods so you can tune them in for your own ears. The string intermodulation limits how far we can go with several mods. Certain things actually make the PSU less stable and the PSU oscillations you don't hear modulate the notes that you do hear. See how presence and depth work for you. Getting some rest now. Catch you later.
will check it out in a couple hours, thanks again!
 
@stub, I notice you are a bass player. This a Jazz Bass patch you will have to provide the IR if you want to audition it. I am not a bass player. But, I am trying to create more Fractal Bass options for people who prefer the tighter cleaner SS sound. There are limits to what can be done, But, I am listening if you have some bass observations to share with me. I probably won't answer right now, going to sleep. But, I need useful input and I appreciate it. Later...

Yes, I have a passive bass with neodymium side-winders (Q-tuners), and an active fretless bass; both 5-strings. Busy weekend, but I've gathered all your suggestions and took careful notes. I'm really looking forward to trying them with my full-range studio monitors, cans, then perhaps a smallish FRFR powered-speaker.

I don't have any 3rd party bass IRs, but I'm happy to try some from the extensive Fractal list- and do supplemental EQ as needed. The challenge is that the Fractal list is like the white pages in a major city. Where to begin? I'll search bass, maybe 2x10, or 1x15.
 
@Postretro , i dig it. I have it coupled to the bergantino nxt210finger basic IR (from celestion) and I think it sounds a little better with that cab for fretless than the SL112. I tweaked the EQ a tad too. Here's my variation. Sounds good for fretted too but I just put new strings on my fretted so they sound a bit bright today...I'm working on a new clip with my variation of your latest...
 

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  • jaz Bass JC120 Trial 1.1.syx
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@stub, this is a "Short List of Available Bass IR's"

Search Terms for Bass speakers in IR picker:
PZM = Dr Bonkers
12L = EVM 12L
SV = mostly Ampeg (some non bass IR's)

Acoustic Model 406 Wide 2x15 bass cabinet,
2 original Eminence speakers.
RE20 in Cap position + Crown PZM. MicDI method.
Also suitable for guitar
Source: Dr Bonkers

194 — 2x15 AC406 RE20+PZM DB — DB


1990's Gallien-Krueger 410RBH 4x10+Tweeter bass cabinet,
original proprietary GK speakers and tweeter.
AKG D12vr in Cone position + Crown PZM. MicDI method.
Source: Dr Bonkers

214 — 4x10 GeekRB D12+PZM DB — DB


1995 Pre-Fender SWR Workingman’s 12 Combo 1x12 plus tweeter bass amp cabinet,
original 1x12 Celestion K12T-200 proprietary speaker and SWR tweeter.
M160 in Cone position + Crown PZM. MicDI method.
Also suitable for jazz guitar.
Source: Dr Bonkers

552 — 1x12 WMAN 160+PZM DB — DB


2009 Trace Elliot 1x15 TE1518 bass cabinet,
original 15" Celestion bass speaker.
Sennheiser MD441 in Cone Position + Crown PZM. MicDI method.
Source: Dr Bonkers

617 — 1x15 TRAEL 441+PZM DB — DB


Ampeg SVT-210AV bass cabinet with two 10" speakers.
https://ampeg.com/pdf/SVT210AV_OM.pdf
Source: OwnHammer AMPG BASS

663 — 2x10 AMPG AVT-10 57 OH — OwnHammer
664 — 2x10 AMPG AVT-10 121 OH — OwnHammer
665 — 2x10 AMPG AVT-10 SUB OH — OwnHammer
666 — 2x10 AMPG AVT-10 U70 OH — OwnHammer


Ampeg SVT 410 bass cab.
https://ampeg.com/products/classic/svt410he/
Source: Cab Pack 11 - ML SV Bass 4x10

266 — 4x10 SV Bass 57 B1 ML — ML Sound Lab
267 — 4x10 SV Bass 121 B1 ML — ML Sound Lab
268 — 4x10 SV Bass 421 B1 ML — ML Sound Lab
269 — 4x10 SV Bass 906 B1 ML — ML Sound Lab


Ampeg SVT-410HE bass cab
https://ampeg.com/pdf/SVT410HE.pdf

270 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 88 A — FAS
271 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 88 B — FAS
272 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 88 C — FAS
273 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 88 D — FAS
274 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 88 Tweeter — FAS
275 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 313 A — FAS
276 — 4x10 SV Bass HE 313 B — FAS


BASS CABINETS
066 — 1x15 L.A. BASS — SWR 1x15 bass amp cabinet
067 — 4x10 ALUMINUM BASS (RW) — Hartke 4x10" bass cabinet with aluminum drivers
068 — 8x10 SV BASS (RW) — Ampeg SVT-810 bass cab with stock SVT 10" speakers
109 — 1x15 SV BASS M88 — 1x15 bass cabinet, Beyerdynamic M88 microphone
110 — 1x15 SV BASS SUBKICK — 1x15 bass cabinet, subkick
111 — 4x10 SV BASS M88 — 4x10 bass cabinet, Beyerdynamic M88 microphone
112 — 4x10 SV BASS SUBKICK — 4x10 bass cabinet, subkick
113 — 4x10+TWEETER SV BASS M88 — 4x10 bass cabinet, M88 microphone


EV 12L/12S
008 — 1x12 E12L (RW) — 200 watt Electro-Voice EVM-12L,
housed in a solid mahogany, open-backed cabinet.
Cliff (firmware 10): "I remixed it. I thought is was too boxy sounding"
IR version before firmware 10
012 — 1x12 SHIVER 121 (bg) — Bogner Shiva 1x12 dual ported cab,
Royer 121, Classic Lead 80 (Cab Pack 17).
Before Quantum 1.00: OwnHammer 1x12
105 — 4x12 RUMBLE EV12L RNR1 — EVM 12L speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, UltraRes,
captured using the Mic+DI method.
Before firmware 19: 4x12 Rumble EV12L Mix
106 — 4x12 RUMBLE EV12S M160 — EVM 12S speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, UltraRes, captured using the Mic+DI method.
Before firmware 19: 4x12 Rumble EV12L Mix
144 — 4x12 MAR-CB EV-S MIX (OH) — EVM 12S speakers
in a 1970's Marshall 1960B "checkerboard" 4x12 cabinet, UltraRes


UltraRes (Cab Pack 14). Specifically intended to be used in mixes in the box:

166 — 4x12 RUMBLE L 121 A — EVM 12L speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, Royer 121,
167 — 4x12 RUMBLE L 4047 A — EVM 12L speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, Audio-Technica AT-4047,
168 — 4x12 RUMBLE L L G44 A — EVM 12L speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet,
169 — 4x12 RUMBLE S 121 C — EVM 12S speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, Royer 121,
170 — 4x12 RUMBLE S 4047 B — EVM 12S speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, Audio-Technica AT-4047,
171 — 4x12 RUMBLE S R1 D — EVM 12S speakers in a 4x12
12L/12S "Thiele" Dumble cabinet, SE Electronics RNR1,
 
@stub, first some disclaimers. I am not a Bass player. I am not a Jazz musician. And, I am not an Engineer
The only reason I am doing this is to hopefully open up more doors for Jazz/Fusion styes to use Fractal products.
Pop and Slap Funk Styles can tolerate and even use the IM distortion of a typical Bass setup.
But, still things that can be done to allow more notes to be played semi-cleanly at once is helpful.
The more defined the bass sound can become the better for some styles.
More punch and better transient response can also help.
The nice thing is, amp models are much quicker, easier and cheaper to modify than a physical amp
And, much cheaper to to keep as several versions of an amp.

I hope to list a few parameter variations that bass players can use to tune in their sound.

Recording techniques have a lot of solutions for this.
A personal live setup may be a little different to please some people.

The purpose here is to explore other options for 5/6 string bass players who generally want a bass sound with warmth and color but not intermodulation. This is a very experimental thread. I need feedback. IM is problem for Jazz/Fusion players. It comes from signal IM in the amp and sometimes from IM with the PSU in the amp. It can also come from the guitar if it isn't set up right.

Or simply because the guitar covers a wider frequency range (5/6 string.) Or, it is not setup well. Or, the pickup is more hot than clean.

Individual speakers have different levels of IM, Groups of Speakers have more, using two bass IR's is difficult even when aligned.

The high resonance peak in the speaker impedance curve causes IM problems. The low resonance peak does too. But, the "Low Frequency Resonance Peak" is a compromise due to the character the LFRP brings to the bass sound. The HFRP is much less important to the Bass sound other than to cause unnecessary IM. In the physical the HFRP is a fact of life. In a model it can taken out with the twist of a parameter.

It all adds up.
 
Speaker IR intermodulation. Sounds like chorusing, wavering or just muddy distortion

Speaker cabs with more than one speaker have more IM/interference waves
It might be best to use a single speaker 1x (10,12,15.)
Possibly, in a Thiele cab for the best solution to a Jazz Bass sound.
A difference between two speakers or two cabs cause audible interference and IM.
It might be best to use just one speaker in one cab (thiele) in just one IR.
Interference and IM are just much more noticeable in the lower frequencies as the notes sustain, or are played together.

A good two-way system is probably fine.
But, the crossover is important and crossovers are not a casual or simple thing when trying to approach clear sound.
I haven't experimented with setting up a crossover in Fractal. But, that might a solution.

I (Neil Young fan) really liked the

109 — 1x15 SV BASS M88 — 1x15 bass cabinet, Beyerdynamic M88 microphone
110 — 1x15 SV BASS SUBKICK — 1x15 bass cabinet, subkick

But, even after aligning for the least interference, there was still a lot interferences waves which become a problem with the 5th and 6th string.
 
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