Parallel chain with shunt adds gain ?

So any time I build a preset with parallel routing, I have to retweak gain in amp block ? Or what is the best approach to this ?

As others have advised, if the drive block is not being used in a certain scene, have the bypass state set to Mute to avoid the gain buildup oversaturating the amp.

If you are using parallel drive block gain for scenes, the key is set up the block output levels when all the drives are on and tweak your mix of drives to taste.

If you need more volume control variation of the drives before the amp block, then put a neutrally set filter block after each drive block. With this method, each block has unity gain plus 3 other channels each that may be used for output gain control with minimal memory cost.

Interested to know if there is something I'm missing as far as how having a parallel shunt could be useful

Parallel drive blocks into a single amp can sound massive. You can bring definition into a fuzz sound using a parallel drive block using the FET preamp set with minimal drive and some righteously set tone controls, for example. A Tube Screamer and a Rat set with complimentary tones on parallel signal paths can sound more complex than just one drive pounding the amp alone, or setting up one drive in series into another drive.
 
Aahhh man I never knew this.

All my presets have shunts as place holders for effect locations I may use pre and post amp.... I may need to revisit my preset management.

Thanks for the education.
Again, it's not about shunts... It's about parallel rows of signal path.

A shunt has NO effect on the signal.
 
Yes but those rows then merging and eventually being output. I believe it's the merging that does the (effective) summing.
Good point... Multiple rows that eventually end up at the same output.

I was mostly trying to make the distinction about shunts being unrelated.
 
As others have advised, if the drive block is not being used in a certain scene, have the bypass state set to Mute to avoid the gain buildup oversaturating the amp.

If you are using parallel drive block gain for scenes, the key is set up the block output levels when all the drives are on and tweak your mix of drives to taste.

If you need more volume control variation of the drives before the amp block, then put a neutrally set filter block after each drive block. With this method, each block has unity gain plus 3 other channels each that may be used for output gain control with minimal memory cost.



Parallel drive blocks into a single amp can sound massive. You can bring definition into a fuzz sound using a parallel drive block using the FET preamp set with minimal drive and some righteously set tone controls, for example. A Tube Screamer and a Rat set with complimentary tones on parallel signal paths can sound more complex than just one drive pounding the amp alone, or setting up one drive in series into another drive.

You can also use a multiplexer block that way only one patch is active at a time. If you want to run them in parallel at the same time you can use a mixer block.
 
I just discovered this myself a few days ago. As I grew up playing dry through combo amps with built-in effects, I never really learned the "how" or "why" of routing signal paths. I'm not an electrician or an engineer, but the fundamentals and effort can pay off in an immeasurable way. This is the case with most fractal products though. The more you give, the more you get back.

In my experience, certain delays and effects sound much more distinct and clean in parallel. They would also likely track better than traditional series routing effects.
 
Again, it's not about shunts... It's about parallel rows of signal path.

A shunt has NO effect on the signal.
I tested, it made no difference so I went back and reread the posts, I had misunderstood some elements.

Thanks for the update.
 
Huh, I just realised you can get a boost (either pre-amp, or post-) for practically free, CPU-wise, using a single-block parallel chain.

You can also just increase the input trim, or use the input boost for preamp boost, for postamp you can just use the level on the amp. You attach the levels to a control, pedal, or external switch for toggling.
 
I just discovered this myself a few days ago. As I grew up playing dry through combo amps with built-in effects, I never really learned the "how" or "why" of routing signal paths. I'm not an electrician or an engineer, but the fundamentals and effort can pay off in an immeasurable way. This is the case with most fractal products though. The more you give, the more you get back.

In my experience, certain delays and effects sound much more distinct and clean in parallel. They would also likely track better than traditional series routing effects.

If you are talking about just one effect in parallel , they can sound exactly the same whether in series or parallel.
Rather than rehash the discussion, you can read why and how here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/reverb-in-serial-vs-parallel.175082/#post-2123636
 
The block bypass options (manual page 55) are a huge feature that allow you to have complete control over how your dry (and wet) signals are routed through blocks. It's a big advantage over Helix which lacks any block bypass options (as well as multiple parallel paths) which together make using parallel routing difficult and much less flexible on that unit.

For example, on bass it's very common to run a drive in parallel to retain the clean low end. If you bypass that drive and its bypass mode is set to thru, you'll have two identical copies of your dry being summed, resulting in a level increase of your dry. You'll probably actually perceive it as a decrease in the dry level when you turn on the drive block since the artificially loud dry probably becomes your new baseline reference.

To avoid this, simply set the bypass mode of the drive to "mute," so when you bypass the drive block, the wet and dry are totally silenced, preventing the +6dB summing behavior.

For wet effects it's a little more complex but the manual explains it pretty clearly. The most important thing is to make sure you only ever have one copy of your dry coming through so you don't run into level issues like this.
 
Where I’m getting a little bit lost is the difference between the summing behavior of parallel paths and the way you actually use parallel blocks, delay in particular.

For example if I run delay in series I would use the mix to set the amount of delay I’m hearing and there would be no +6 dB boost to worry about it. But in parallel you’re adjusting using level. Does this not impact the overall gain of the preset to do it this way or am I missing something?
 
For example if I run delay in series I would use the mix to set the amount of delay I’m hearing and there would be no +6 dB boost to worry about it. But in parallel you’re adjusting using level. Does this not impact the overall gain of the preset to do it this way or am I missing something?

It does affect level a bit, but not as much as a direct copy of the signal would. The main reason to use the 100% wet parallel method would be to keep the dry level constant and add delay to that. Basically, as a way of circumventing the mix control's "mix law", which starts to lower the direct when mixing in the wet in a number of blocks....
 
For example if I run delay in series I would use the mix to set the amount of delay I’m hearing and there would be no +6 dB boost to worry about it. But in parallel you’re adjusting using level. Does this not impact the overall gain of the preset to do it this way or am I missing something?

From https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Delay_block#Mix

Mix

Adjusting the Mix parameter has no impact on the dry signal, unless it goes beyond 50%. This only applies to the Delay block. It's referred to as the 'Mix Law' for the Delay block.

(firmware 11 for Axe-Fx II) "Changed mix law for Delay block. The dry signal now stays constant at unity until Mix reaches 50% then decreases linearly to zero. Conversely the wet signal starts at zero and then increases linearly to unity when Mix reaches 50%. This eliminates having to compensate for decreased dry signal when increasing the mix".
The Mix Law makes it unnecessary to use Delay in parallel routing.
 
Where I’m getting a little bit lost is the difference between the summing behavior of parallel paths and the way you actually use parallel blocks, delay in particular.

For example if I run delay in series I would use the mix to set the amount of delay I’m hearing and there would be no +6 dB boost to worry about it. But in parallel you’re adjusting using level. Does this not impact the overall gain of the preset to do it this way or am I missing something?

For delay's and reverbs you typically are mixing in a fairly small amount of wet signal so the net increase in the total signal level is not that much.

Something like chorus, flanger, or phaser on the other hand, you typically mix in equal amounts of wet and dry, so the level increase can be quite noticeable in a parallel configuration.

All blocks that have a MIX control are already in parallel with an internal dry signal path inside the block and the wet and dry levels are already compensated with the exception of the delays due to their different mix law as noted above.
 
For example if I run delay in series I would use the mix to set the amount of delay I’m hearing and there would be no +6 dB boost to worry about it. But in parallel you’re adjusting using level. Does this not impact the overall gain of the preset to do it this way or am I missing something?
To spell it out a bit more even though you've had a few replies, when you use Delay in parallel you DON'T use Mix to control it.

You set Mix to 100% and use Input Gain to set it the amount of delay you hear.

That's the way to avoid the 6dB gain increase.
 
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