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Parallel chain with shunt adds gain ?

RDeraz

Experienced
If your adding a parallel shunt into the amp block, you're basically adding a 6db gain boost to the front of the amp. If your adding the parallel shunt after the amp block, you're adding a 6db volume boost to the over all signal.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
When you split the signal to another row, you are sending an identical copy of the source signal to the new row. Parallel rows add together to increase the total signal level when they rejoin.

So, for example, if you've got 3 blocks in parallel, you end up adding 3 copies of the signal back together when they rejoin.

Quick and dirty table for the added level with blocks in parallel.

1 row = unity gain or 0 dB
2 rows = +6 dB
3 rows = +9.5 dB
4 rows = +12 dB
5 rows = +14 dB
6 rows = +15.5 dB

How you compensate for the level change depends on whether or not you intend to use any of the parallel blocks at the same time.
 

Joe Bfstplk

Axe-Master
Quick and dirty table for the added level with blocks in parallel.

1 row = unity gain or 0 dB
2 rows = +6 dB
3 rows = +9.5 dB
4 rows = +12 dB
5 rows = +14 dB
6 rows = +15.5 dB
This ^^^^ should be in the manual, the wiki, and tattooed in reverse on everyone's forehead so they can read it in the mirror.... 🤪
 

Bruce Sokolovic

Power User
From my remedial college math tutoring experience, it is best to assume complete ignorance and refrain from attaching judgement to that. Soooo many things are soooo much simpler, easier, and kinder that way....
I think the benchmark is reasonability. The fractal includes a tuner. It would be unreasonable for the manual to explain pitch, cycles, gears in tuning Pegs and stringing. Personally I’d assume adding shunts that eventually spill into an output somewhere would increase volume. When I first got my AX8 I pointed this out to a pal who turned me on to the various mute behaviors in blocks and straightened me out. I knew why it was happening, I just wasn’t sure where the tool was to fix it.
Safe to say the dad rocker or the kid who buys an AxeFXIII who never had a board would have questions about this. It’s not stupidity, just lacking some basic experience in signal routing. That’s why we have awesome forums like this!!!
 

Joe Bfstplk

Axe-Master
I think the benchmark is reasonability. The fractal includes a tuner. It would be unreasonable for the manual to explain pitch, cycles, gears in tuning Pegs and stringing. Personally I’d assume adding shunts that eventually spill into an output somewhere would increase volume. When I first got my AX8 I pointed this out to a pal who turned me on to the various mute behaviors in blocks and straightened me out. I knew why it was happening, I just wasn’t sure where the tool was to fix it.
Safe to say the dad rocker or the kid who buys an AxeFXIII who never had a board would have questions about this. It’s not stupidity, just lacking some basic experience in signal routing. That’s why we have awesome forums like this!!!
Well, near-complete ignorance, at least.

Most people know what numbers are and what they represent, and can do basic arithmetic, but some don't grok algebra, which is what is generally the topic in remedial college level classes. The lack of attached judgement is more central to the point. The word 'stupid' has inherent judgement attached in the general vernacular. Maybe nobody the person encountered was an adequate explainer of the topic. The task at hand is to help if you can, or at least not cause any harm. Quite a lot of good folk here get the gist of why the board is here.... :)
 

yyz67

Power User
When you split the signal to another row, you are sending an identical copy of the source signal to the new row. Parallel rows add together to increase the total signal level when they rejoin.

So, for example, if you've got 3 blocks in parallel, you end up adding 3 copies of the signal back together when they rejoin.

Quick and dirty table for the added level with blocks in parallel.

1 row = unity gain or 0 dB
2 rows = +6 dB
3 rows = +9.5 dB
4 rows = +12 dB
5 rows = +14 dB
6 rows = +15.5 dB

How you compensate for the level change depends on whether or not you intend to use any of the parallel blocks at the same time.

Or for the formula-inclined:

1 row = 20*log(1) = 0 dB
2 rows = 20*log(2) = 6 dB (2x signal)
3 rows = 20*log(3) = 9.5 dB
4 rows = 20*log(4) = 12 dB (4x signal)
5 rows = 20*log(5) = 14 dB
6 rows = 20*log(6) = 15.6 dB (15.5 close enough)
 
Last edited:

Zedhed

Power User
I made a preset ages ago using masses of shunts as a booster.
It's splitting the signal onto another row and summing them back into the signal that increases the level, not the shunts themselves.
When you split the signal to another row, you are sending an identical copy of the source signal to the new row. Parallel rows add together to increase the total signal level when they rejoin.

So, for example, if you've got 3 blocks in parallel, you end up adding 3 copies of the signal back together when they rejoin.

Quick and dirty table for the added level with blocks in parallel.

1 row = unity gain or 0 dB
2 rows = +6 dB
3 rows = +9.5 dB
4 rows = +12 dB
5 rows = +14 dB
6 rows = +15.5 dB

How you compensate for the level change depends on whether or not you intend to use any of the parallel blocks at the same time.
 
Last edited:

jlynnb1

Axe-Master
very interesting.. with this shunt block in parallel, I have to lower the input trim in amp block from stock value 1 to around 0.5 to maintain the same sound.
I have tried to add 3 exact shunt chains and it feels like stacking 3 tubescreamers in front of amp :D
So any time I build a preset with parallel routing, I have to retweak gain in amp block ? Or what is the best approach to this ?
Till now I only used simple presets without paralell routing.

edit : I only hear more gain, level-wise it stays the same.
if you have multiple parallel paths before the amp, you are hitting the amp with a LOT more signal level, so of course it will break up. The mix should be at 100% of any effect you use in parallel, then use level to control the amount of effect you want. Then set the mute to your preference other than thru, so that when bypassed the signal isn'y being passed. this will take care of your issues.
 

Thomas Obester

Inspired
you are all “fractalmazing” and I’m very thankful to be a part of this helpful community :)
I will gladly dive a bit deeper and study this topic more :)
 
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