Pairing Pedals with Amps and Cabs

nandro48

Member
I generally use the Tube Screamer as a "Clean" drive with an Angle Severe 2 (as an example) per @yek to get a heavy Killswitch tone.

My question is how to pair a Boss pedal (i.e. MT-2) with a clean amp/cab setup and let the pedal really drive the distortion/tone. I would think this should be relatively easy, but I can't seem to find an amp/cab setup to pair with the MT-2 to get a heavy sound. My tone always end up flubby and not even close to metal. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Whatever cab you use, make sure you set a high pass filter in the cab block. Tube Screamer drives the mids really hard, but if you start driving the bottom end with a more "metal" oriented pedal, most amp/cab setups can get flubby without this. 90 Hz start point. Don't be surprised if you get to 130 Hz or above, depending on what you are listening through.

If you are short of a start point for cabs, I like 561 - 568, 573 - 580, and 761 - 772, a lot for heavier tones. As many will notice, I spend time looking with my eyes rather than my ears. (Sorry Cliff!) There are a lot of cabs available, so I tend to go for things that have worked for me in the analogue world of humping 4 x 12 cabs into the back of vans after the show.

Liam
 
Thank you, Brian and Liam. Both of your suggestions gave me a good starting point.

@LiamH Can you elaborate a bit on the "high pass filter" in the cab block? I'm going from combo amps to the Axe so forgive any dumb questions. I have the "Preamp" tab open on the cab block. Should I also be messing with the Slopes? I'm confused all around when it comes to Low / High Cuts and Slopes in terms of what they do.

Another question is how I use the MT-2 to achieve the tone I want. I was reading through Yek's guide, and he mentioned that the mids are important - what's the best way to find the sweet spot for the "Mid Frequency" knob?
 
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Hi Nandro,

One of the downsides of Axe Edit is that you need to be connected to the Axe FX to see much. I'm in the kitchen at home, my Axe FX is out in the studio in an outbuilding, and it's approximately -2 celcius out there, but I'll do my best from memory...

The high pass filter basically gets rid of low frequencies (AKA flub) pretty completely. The default slope does it plenty fast enough, and prevents speakers from trying to reproduce low frequency content that they are really not equipped to deal with. All you need to do is try a few frequency settings and see how it sounds. Ignore slopes, and for your purposes ignore low pass filters. Go for the one on the left and set some high pass to get rid of the low bass. (If it has been rephrased in Axe Edit as low cut, or high cut as your post suggests, you might need to reevaluate. Apologies, acoustic terminology is often counterintuitive).

Yek is right (just for a change :openmouth: ) about the importance of mid frequencies. Turn the mid control right down to get a very tight and "mid-scooped" sound with anything that offers that control. You can build body, fullness and listener fatigue/annoyance by turning the mids up. It's essentially the "obnoxious" control that Frank Zappa maybe dreamt of. Frank Zappa.

Too low is when you can't hear yourself properly in the mix. Too high is when people start telling you your guitar tone is offensive. Default setting of Tube Screamer pedals (and models) is that the (missing) mid control was pretty high. If you have a mid control available, try turning it down as first port of call.

Hope that's not too confusing!

Liam
 
Nandro, my apologies, I braved the cold and checked this evening. It is indeed called "low cut", and it's in the cab block's first tab. It will remove low frequencies below the set frequency. Try it first with the slope set at default 12 dB per octave. It seldom does too much audible until you get to 100 Hz, but keep going up from there and see if the sound gets less flubby. Some people like it way up at 130 Hz. I seldom go above 100 Hz. Once you have found a frequency that feels good to you, try adjusting the slope. The bigger the number the sharper the bass roll-off. The default is always fine for me and my setup.

Liam
 
No worries, Liam! Thank you for braving the elements :). Your advice has improved my tone drastically - really appreciate your explanations (especially the low cut piece).

I'm like 95% there but feel like I don't have the MT-2 dialed in the way I'd expect it to look. I know the rule of thumb for metal is to scoop the mids, but this article seems to indicate the opposite (Metal Zone). Yek's comment (albeit vague) about "mids being important" further muddied the waters.

Right now my distortion is at 5, bass at -4.5 dB, mid at 6 dB, and treble at 7 dB. The mid frequency is set to 370 Hz right now. This was merely guesswork on my part mixed with the information in that article. Are these settings normal (I know people say "stop when it sounds good" - while that is true, it doesn't provide the learning experience I'm looking to achieve)?

My next move is to scoop some mids in the Output EQ of the Amp but always feel like that's "cheating". Thanks again for being so helpful.
 
Well... I never used a Boss MT-2, and have not played with the Fractal model of it. Was a long term Boss HM-2 user when they first came out (seriously, I am that old), but while I still have an HM-2 in one of the many boxes of assorted effects pedals, I haven't used it in a long, long time. It didn't have a mid control that I remember, so mids were scooped by turning treble and bass up, and level down. So take all of this with a pinch of salt and let your ears do the guiding.

There is no normal! The article you have linked to is interesting, but is really talking about using an MT-2 to achieve a more recent sounding tone than most people bought the pedal for back in their heyday. A bit more punk/indie than classic hair metal and the heavy tones that followed. All a matter of taste and what you are trying to achieve, but they are setting it up a little like a Tube Screamer in terms of tone.

Your distortion setting is probably in the ball park - I'd maybe try a little lower (maybe 3-4), but we still need to talk about level and gain. Bass setting on the low side now that you have set a low cut in the cab block. You should be able to bring the bottom end up without letting too much "mud/flub" through. Because you are boosting the mid, try increasing the frequency a little. It will make the guitar more audible in a mix with other instruments, but can make it sound a little honky. 500-600Hz generally sounds good to me for boosted mids, 700Hz can get honky. 370Hz is quite a good frequency area to cut some mids, but for mid-boosting I tend to go for slightly higher frequencies. You treble setting is higher than I would use, so I would normally bypass the MT-2 and see what the amp sounds like on its own. If it can take a bit more treble and/or presence, turn those up on the amp, and then re-engage the MT-2 and take the treble on that one down to suit. It will likely make things less fizzy sounding.

So, effect level and amp input gain. You don't mention what level you are using for the MT-2? You need to make this work in combination with the amp input gain. Here is how I generally do it:

Bypass the MT-2 and set the amp for an input gain setting you can live with. For most that means somewhere between highest end of clean, or a little way into crunch tone. Once you are happy with that, turn the MT-2 back on and adjust its level so that you get a slight volume increase when you switch it in. From there you can go on to adjust how hard the pedal pushes the amp, because increasing the output level of the pedal will do much the same as increasing the input gain of the amp. With physical amps and pedals most of us are kind of stuck with setting the amp input gain for a good rhythm sound, and then a bit stuck with how much extra amp drive can be added when the pedal is switched in, because it gets too much louder than the rhythm sound. Of course with the Axe FX no such issues are insurmountable, because we can just make a rhythm Scene with the pedal bypassed, and a lead Scene with the pedal engaged, and then use per-Scene level controls to make sure they are both at appropriate volumes. I still find this mind-blowing, but I'm a simple soul!

Hope that's enough to keep you away from mid scooping the output EQ. It's cheating in my mind too, mostly because you lose all the glory of a tube pre-amp's subtleties in dealing with the frequencies delivered to it by the pedal. Seems a waste of Fractal Audio's detailed modelling just to trim any EQ issues at the output, when they could be part of the fully modelled tone.

Liam
 
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Liam - Thank you for such a detailed writeup! I won't be able to experiment tonight, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for all your help and guidance up to this point. Planning to put your suggestions above into action (hopefully tomorrow)! I'll keep you posted with my progress. Thanks again!
 
Ok so I finally got some time to sit down and really play with the settings. Forgive any dumb decisions I made when creating this preset.

Here are the tweaked settings leveraging what you mentioned above (other than the Drive test - this was hard since I'm using a Tube Pre amp):
  • Amp
    • I'm using the "Tube Pre" amp and letting the pedal really drive the distortion - when I bypass the MT-2, there is little distortion to be had and very little body. That said, here are my current settings:
      • Drive is 7.5
      • Bass is 3.4
      • Mid is 3
      • Treble is 5.6
      • Depth is 2.7
      • No Presence knob unfortunately
      • Cut trigger is On
      • Master Volume Trim is 2 (I have a couple PEQ blocks later in the chain for headphone purposes (per Oratory EQ) that suggest a -6.7 dB hit each - open to your feedback on that too)
  • I'm Tonestacking with a Jazz 120 at 420 Hz (no idea why this combination produced a metal tone, but I liked it as a starting point)
  • I'm using the "Super OD" Input Boost at 12 dB
  • I inserted a High Cut at 7,000 Hz - not sure if this is standard practice / expected
  • MT-2 pedal settings
    • Distortion is 4
    • Bass is 2.1 dB
    • Mid is 3.3 dB
    • Treble is 1.1 dB
    • Mid Frequency is 550 Hz (per your suggestion)
    • Level is 10
I realize I threw a ton of information at you - here are some remaining thoughts on my side:
  • How do I determine where to adjust Bass, Treble, etc? These settings are in both the pedal and amp so I imagine the amp should take precedence?
  • This preset seems highly modified and potentially over engineered (my own doing) - I'm surprised that I'm needing to set the Drives and Levels so high. I'm not exactly sure how Tonestacking works so this adds a layer of complexity into the mix.
Apologies for the novel - just wanted to give you a more comprehensive picture of what I'm doing. Interested to get your reaction based on my settings above.
 
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