Output level for bass too low?

laxu

laxu

Fractal Fanatic
So I recently sold my little bass combo as I wanted to make my Axe-Fx 2 work for both guitar and bass thru my Genelec + sub output. It works great for guitar but I'm having issues with bass. Mainly it seems that I can't get enough output volume with either of my basses (a passive Yamaha BB414 and an active Ibanez BTB33). Currently my patch is very simple, just Amp and Cab blocks at their default settings. Unlike with guitar, I have to raise the amp block volume to 0 db and it's still not loud by any means.

My Axe-Fx 2 is connected via SPDIF to my Echo AudioFire 4 audio interface which is connected to the Genelecs. Bass is connected via Axe front input. No analog outputs are used. According to my audio interface the levels are below -12 db or something.
 
When you say output volume is low, do you mean output from your basses into the Fractal input 1 or do you mean output from your presets into your interface digitally?

If it's the first scenario you turn up the input in the i/o menu on the front panel.

If it's the second scenario, depending upon how you built your presets, you can turn up the volume from amp block output, cab block output, or the main preset volume output 1, depending upon your signal routing will let you know which one will work best.
 
It's output to my interface. I've already turned level on the amp block almost all the way up and wondering if I'm doing something wrong because it's still fairly low output at the interface.
 
Yep, some amps are really quiet (e.g. FAS bass, nice amp tho). Go to the utility/Vumeter, and check if you are around 0db.
 
Houta said:
Yep, some amps are really quiet (e.g. FAS bass, nice amp tho). Go to the utility/Vumeter, and check if you are around 0db.
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Far from it so that's why I'm guessing it's an issue with how I'm setting it up in the Axe-Fx.
 
Check that Master Vol. Trim is at least at 1 (If you double click it, it goes to 0.1). If verything looks fine, then just raise the Vol trim (or the master level). I usually put the Master Vol at 10, and output around -10db and that gives just enought output (0db or so on the VUmeter).
 
I get similar input levels playing single notes on any of my guitars thru the same patch so I think the input level is just fine. Master vol trim is also at 1, basically all amp and cab block settings are at default except I have amp model and cab IR chosen. Changing the amp model to for example Double Verb Nrm without changing any other settings fixes the volume level right away. If I turn the master volume trim or input volume trim to around 3.0 in Axe-Edit using any of the bass amp models I get similar volumes to the Double Verb on default settings.

Are the bass amps all just ridiculously quiet compared to the guitar amps? It would seem so, is this a bug or deliberate?
 
Well, I'd say upload the preset and I'll check it out for you. I have zero issues with bass on Axe-Fx... and bass is my primary instrument :p.
 
Basses are often low output, except active basses, which can be crazy hot. And lots of dynamics compared to guitar tones. With my bass, I have to crank the instrument input to 100%, guitars are at 20%.
 
aziz said:
Basses are often low output, except active basses, which can be crazy hot. And lots of dynamics compared to guitar tones. With my bass, I have to crank the instrument input to 100%, guitars are at 20%.
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How do you handle this? I've used the instr in level control as "set and forget" type control so I guess you just have to remember to change it whenever you use a bass? Or should I instead use one of the back panel inputs for bass? I tried it with both an active and a passive bass and both seem to have fairly similar output. Of course if I use the bass/mid/treble EQ to boost on the active bass then it will up the levels.
 
selta said:
Well, I'd say upload the preset and I'll check it out for you. I have zero issues with bass on Axe-Fx... and bass is my primary instrument :p.
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As mentioned, this was a super bare-bones patch with just Amp and Cab block at default settings. Messed around with it a bit yesterday and managed to get a fairly good patch with the FAS Bass combined with a Filter block to boost the level and in Y mode I used the Citrus Bass 200 with the master at about 8 which seemed to put the levels where I wanted them.

Would still be nice if Fractal chimed in why the bass amps are so quiet by default compared even to the clean guitar amps.
 
Its easy to boost them, and the output level is usually hot enough from the amp block by itself. Its kind of just way bass is, with a super clean tone you have to crank the speakers. Add some compression and overdrive to make it less dynamic.
 
aziz said:
Its easy to boost them, and the output level is usually hot enough from the amp block by itself. Its kind of just way bass is, with a super clean tone you have to crank the speakers. Add some compression and overdrive to make it less dynamic.
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I think the OP is saying some of the bass amp models have way lower output at the same settings as the guitar amp models. With everything else in the preset being the same.

It's not the input or bass guitar output he is discussing; it's having to boost the preset post amp to make it the same volume.
 
barhrecords said:
I think the OP is saying some of the bass amp models have way lower output at the same settings as the guitar amp models. With everything else in the preset being the same.

It's not the input or bass guitar output he is discussing; it's having to boost the preset post amp to make it the same volume.
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Exactly. If you try most of the bass amps at the default amp block settings and then compare the same to any clean guitar amp model there's a big difference in volume, the only setting changed is the amp model used and whatever advanced settings it has.
 
Raising this up again trying to figure out the problem for good. I did some more testing of the issue.

Without using the Filter block trick mentioned in this thread, my bass output is roughly the same as the bypassed volume. Looking at the input, I get about 60-70% input with input trim at 60% and my Ibanez BTB33 bass at its default settings (volume full, EQ knobs at center) and 100% when I crank the EQ pots. So input levels should be fine.

Assume that everything that follows is with the amp block settings reset to their defaults. Noisegate also reset.
Problematic amp models:
  • FAS Bass
  • SV Bass
  • USA Bass 400 1 & 2
  • USA Clean (guitar amp)
  • Jazz 120 (guitar amp)
With any of these amp models in use, VU meter shows about -12 db max output, so 1:1 with output level knob. If I have for example Superverb Nrm or TX Star Clean selected I get output that is closer to 0 db. Again, all at default settings, same bass cab models. Jazz 120 seem to be the quietest of them all, so low that VU meter doesn't even register anything.

Do these models just have bad defaults or am I using them wrong somehow? Seems like no matter what I have to set the amp output level to +4 db to match some of the clean guitar amps.
 
I'd have to try it out to be sure. I don't have the issue described, but, I haven't paid close attention to just running at default settings (they sound bad enough, so a good amount of tweaking is necessary).

On a related thought - I'm quite certain that Fractal hasn't given much attention to the bass amp models. I don't know the last time they got the "remeasurement treatment" that every guitar amp has gotten severeal times now - the bass amps may never have received that. I'd also be surprised if Fractal went through the default settings on the bass amps and updated them, as they do with the guitar amps regularly. This ties into how we were lead on to believe that at least one new bass amp was coming in Quantum 4 (a Portaflex)... we're now on Q8.02 and not a peep more about that. Are you seeing the trend here? ;)
 
Something is wrong, I do bass in my axe all the time and never have the issue your describing. Download a bass preset from axechange and see if those have the issues too.
 
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