Output 1/2

RockerAlex

Inspired
Could anybody clarify for me if the output knobs on the front of the Axe add any sort of "coloration" to my tone ... for example, today in practice I had everything turned up pretty loud and it sounded huge and beefy, at home when I have things lower it tends to sound a whole lot thinner. Perhaps a faulty cable? Speakers?
 
They make no difference to your tone at all.

Iits probably the fm curve to blame. You don't hear the high and low freqs as much, and the mids are more pronounced. It seems like you loose a lot of meat, and sizzle from your tone.

My offer to meet up and help you get up to speed on your rig stands btw. I can help you compensate for vol differences if you need.

I take it you sorted your volume issues out.
 
The tone will change as you get louder- google "Fletcher Munson curves" for more information.

As Paul says the level from the output pots will have no bearing on your tone- it is probably simply a response to volume/loudness.
 
Been reading into FM curve recently actually ... blows my mind.

Thought I'd finally mastered dialing in a tone and now there's this to worry about lol!
 
It's not a big issue. I use eq correction on op2 for low volume, and flat eq on op1 for gig levels. Not 100% but close, and means I can use the same patches for both situations.
 
I take it you sorted your volume issues out.

Ah yes thanks! It was just a shitty cab, I've been through my Mesa 4x12 and a Peavey 6505 4x12 since then and they both sounded massive barely turn up at all (Axe and Matrix at noon.)

It's not a big issue. I use eq correction on op2 for low volume, and flat eq on op1 for gig levels. Not 100% but close, and means I can use the same patches for both situations.

It's this something you've sat down and worked out yourself or is there an article somewhere that shows me the values for the global eq?
 
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I also find that you need less gain at low levels, or more correctly you need more gain at low levels to give you the feeling you are used to at high volume.

My studio patches are often too gainy for live work.
 
It might be an idea to think about getting a set of studio monitors for personal practice and recording work with a DAW etc. (more money ... I know I know) ... gumtree sometimes has decent enough s/h ones cropping up.

Then you can capture an IR of your cab at a decent volume and use this as your cab in the end of your preset chain. Then just pipe off to OP2 using a FX loop block just before the cab in the chain - use OP2 from the back of the Axe to your Matrix and reserve OP1 for direct outs (coloured with your cab IR) to FOH or your monitors.

You can try and approximate a FM compensation curve - it's basically boosting the lows and highs (Paul can be more precise I'm sure with freq bands and boost settings here). But what the compensation won't do is emulate the actual speakers response when being pushed a bit .... whereas the IR method gives you scope to play with Drive etc and get a stonkin 'your real cab' tone at low volumes through the monitors.
 
It might be an idea to think about getting a set of studio monitors for personal practice and recording work with a DAW etc. (more money ... I know I know) ... gumtree sometimes has decent enough s/h ones cropping up.

Then you can capture an IR of your cab at a decent volume and use this as your cab in the end of your preset chain. Then just pipe off to OP2 using a FX loop block just before the cab in the chain - use OP2 from the back of the Axe to your Matrix and reserve OP1 for direct outs (coloured with your cab IR) to FOH or your monitors.

You can try and approximate a FM compensation curve - it's basically boosting the lows and highs (Paul can be more precise I'm sure with freq bands and boost settings here). But what the compensation won't do is emulate the actual speakers response when being pushed a bit .... whereas the IR method gives you scope to play with Drive etc and get a stonkin 'your real cab' tone at low volumes through the monitors.

Very interesting ... capturing an IR of my personal cab at home turned up loud ... would the room it's in affect the IR at all? My room is hardly acoustically treated to be recording music in it.

Also, nice to see some other Norn Irn Axe users!
 
The EQ curve i use is a personal one - however, i used the published FM curves as a start point. when the senitivity to a freq band goes up in the curve, i reduced that freq in the global and vica versa. this is of course broad brush - but I fine tuned by ear. The settings were pretty close except the 1Kh band. That "should" (according to the curves) be the constant - ie thats the only freq whos apparent response doesnt change with volume, however i found I needed to boost it by a db or so to keep the punch at low level.

James is right about the gain as well. My patches have two gain levels (using the X and Y amps) and i find I use the low gain for live and the higher gain for home use.

ill PM you my global EQ offsets for home use once my AFX has finished updating the FW. they may not be right for your relative levels or your cab - but should be a decent starting place.
 
The EQ curve i use is a personal one - however, i used the published FM curves as a start point. when the senitivity to a freq band goes up in the curve, i reduced that freq in the global and vica versa. this is of course broad brush - but I fine tuned by ear. The settings were pretty close except the 1Kh band. That "should" (according to the curves) be the constant - ie thats the only freq whos apparent response doesnt change with volume, however i found I needed to boost it by a db or so to keep the punch at low level.

James is right about the gain as well. My patches have two gain levels (using the X and Y amps) and i find I use the low gain for live and the higher gain for home use.

ill PM you my global EQ offsets for home use once my AFX has finished updating the FW. they may not be right for your relative levels or your cab - but should be a decent starting place.

Cool, thanks for the explanation!

That'd be great so I can have a play around with it at home here.
 
Very interesting ... capturing an IR of my personal cab at home turned up loud ... would the room it's in affect the IR at all? My room is hardly acoustically treated to be recording music in it.

Also, nice to see some other Norn Irn Axe users!
The IR capture just needs a mic and a preamp (normal mixing desk channel preamp should work ok) - then you loop the desk out back to the Axe. You'd normally be close mic'ing a single speaker in the cab so room acoustics wouldn't matter. The IR capture signal sent from the Axe to be mic'ed back is not musical - more like a quick blast of farts and whistles - might make the dog bark but won't annoy the neighbours a lot. Getting a decent 'Far Field' mic'ed sound is a lot more difficult as the room reflections will screw it up ... but with a close mic'ed speaker IR cap saved as a Cab you can still play with the Cab IR parameters to get a bit of 4x12 thump back and add air etc.

In fact with the newer IRs floating around from Ownhammer you could probably get some great V30 ones which should sound pretty much like your cab already?
 
In fact with the newer IRs floating around from Ownhammer you could probably get some great V30 ones which should sound pretty much like your cab already?

I see that yeah, I might just be better dropping some cash on those one as they're going to be far more professional than anything I can do.
 
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