Not a Bug Out 2 Block Level

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
There seems to be something amiss with the Out 2 Block. If you send a test signal (either through an input, or the Synth block) to both the Out 1 and Out 2 blocks, the signal going into the Out 2 Block is about 20 dB quieter.

The physical Output 2 isn't the issue - using the Output 2 Copy = Output 1 setting will produce a signal on the Output 2 jacks that is identical in level to Output 1. It's only the Out 2 Block on the grid that seems to be the issue. The "fix" is to crank the block's input row levels by 20 dB (or in my testing, it was 19.9 dB).

Output 2 Boost/Pad has no affect on the Out 2 Block internal level. Phase and Stereo Mode also have no affect. Note - those settings do affect the sound coming out of the jacks, but they are applied after the grid block.

Can anyone else reproduce this, and am I missing something?
 
I should add, the Out 2 physical knob also has no impact on this issue as it is after the block. I'm specifically referring to the level on the Out 2 Block on the grid itself.

Simple test, Synth Block with 1KHz at 0 dB to both blocks:
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 10.39.20 AM.png

Out 1 Block:
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 10.37.53 AM.png

Out 2 Block:
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 10.38.06 AM.png


Out 2 Block with a level boost applied to the block input:
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 10.38.14 AM.png
 
Output 2 is designed for Unity gain (like Outputs 3/4 on Axe Fx III).

It is quieter intentionally.

If you want the same level you can increase the block Level or use Copy Output 1 instead of adding the block.
 
Help me understand a bit better. Unity gain means the output equals the input, but in this case, the Out 2 Block input seems to be causing a decrease in level.

Here's a real world use case:
Let's say I want to split my wet and dry signals. Amp block goes to Out 1. A split after the amp block goes to a parallel reverb block and then to Out 2. If I do nothing else, the level of reverb coming from Out 2 will be significantly lower than if I connect the reverb back into the Out 1 block.

Just a simple cable move from one Out block to the other, and there's a huge discrepancy in level. Does that seem correct? Again, sorry that I'm not understanding it from the get go.
 
Help me understand a bit better. Unity gain means the output equals the input, but in this case, the Out 2 Block input seems to be causing a decrease in level.

They're designed for unity gain when the knob is pinned (maxed) is my understanding. Every tutorial on the Four Cable Method says you need to crank the output knob to the max or else you'll get attenuation.
 
They're designed for unity gain when the knob is pinned (maxed) is my understanding. Every tutorial on the Four Cable Method says you need to crank the output knob to the max or else you'll get attenuation.

I totally get that, in fact I’ve offered that advice on the forum. My Out 2 knob is maxed. However, the Out 2 knob has no affect at all on the level within the Out 2 block. There is internal attenuation happening on the grid itself, and I still believe it’s a bug.
 
I totally get that, in fact I’ve offered that advice on the forum. My Out 2 knob is maxed. However, the Out 2 knob has no affect at all on the level within the Out 2 block. There is internal attenuation happening on the grid itself, and I still believe it’s a bug.

Somebody marked this as "not a bug". Whoever did that, can you give philipacamaniac an explanation why it's not a bug? Considering how often this comes up as a source of confusion, it's hard to believe nothing can be done to improve the situation.
 
A "bug" is unintended behavior. This was deliberately designed that way, for better or worse.

It might not be the most intuitive or useful "feature", but it doesn't classify as a bug. If you want to change it, the proper forum for it would be the Wish List (an admin can correct me if I'm wrong).
 
The point is not whether this is a bug or not. The point is philipacamaniac went to the trouble of providing a detailed report of a problem. If somebody is going to mark this as "not a bug", the least they could have done when doing so is explain to him why it's not a bug. Dismissing problem reports like that without any accompanying explanation only serves to discourage people from reporting problems.
 
The point is not whether this is a bug or not. The point is philipacamaniac went to the trouble of providing a detailed report of a problem. If somebody is going to mark this as "not a bug", the least they could have done when doing so is explain to him why it's not a bug. Dismissing problem reports like that without any accompanying explanation only serves to discourage people from reporting problems.
Isn't my (unofficial) explanation above good enough?
 
I don't think anything's working differently from intended here, even if the reasons might not be obvious. Out 2 produces unity gain with the knob at full (same analog level out as what you sent in, if shunting input to output) while Out 1 would be 20 dB louder. The copy function adds the same 20 dB "boost" to Out 2.

If you need to use both Output blocks and want the same output level for a certain knob position you'll just have to turn the level up 20 dB in the Out 2 block (or somewhere before it in that path only, or turn Out 1 down 20 dB, or some combination of Out 2 up & Out 1 down that amounts to 20 dB).
 
I don't think anything's working differently from intended here, even if the reasons might not be obvious. Out 2 produces unity gain with the knob at full (same analog level out as what you sent in, if shunting input to output) while Out 1 would be 20 dB louder. The copy function adds the same 20 dB "boost" to Out 2.

If you need to use both Output blocks and want the same output level for a certain knob position you'll just have to turn the level up 20 dB in the Out 2 block (or somewhere before it in that path only, or turn Out 1 down 20 dB, or some combination of Out 2 up & Out 1 down that amounts to 20 dB).

This so far makes the most sense to me. So the Out 1 grid block has an internal 20dB boost permanently applied. Thanks for the explanation. It was unexpected behavior because on the AX8, sending signal with all shunts through either Out 1 or Out 2, you could achieve unity gain without any adjustments on the grid.
 
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