Out 1 Main Level ?

Mateo11

Mateo11

Inspired
Hey guys.....I keep getting conflicting info regarding what you should set the Out 1 Main level at on the AX8.

According to Austin Buddy and his YouTube vid tutorial on gain staging the AX8 Out 1 Main should ALWAYS be set to max level. This would set unity gain.

I have read on here most users set it at around 10-12 and that is how I have had mine previously set as well.

I just tried following Austin Buddys advice and setting it at max and it doesn't sound great. Sounds distorted in a bad way. I increased the input pad from 6db to 12db and lowered the Level on the preset but still sounds like its sending way too hot of a signal.

Can anyone confirm where this level should be set at according to Fractal? I know I can just set it where it sounds good to my ears like I have in the past but I would like to know the correct way and the why behind it. Thanks!
 
A preset with only Shunts and the Out level all the way up is Unity again. Only shunts. That means no blocks are increasing the level from there.

This is not the same as the VU meter being at the middle line. It just means the level going in is the same as the level going out.

Once you start adding blocks that add level - like Amp, Drive and others - you increase the output and are no longer at Unity Gain, regardless of the Out knob position. You probably have to reduce the preset volume a lot more than you did for it to work out - but I’m assuming, not knowing what comes after your AX8.

I believe AustinBuddy has a particular concept on preset levels. It makes sense from an overall audio technical standpoint, but requires a bit more understanding as to why it should be done that way.

In my understanding, the Out knobs are designed as a typical “volume knob” like on a radio or other gear. Set your Preset level to the VU meter in the AX8 - middle line for normal volume, softer or louder for softer or louder Presets - then turn up the Out knob until it’s loud enough for the next device in your signal path.

I usually say 9 o clock to 3 o clock is the best useable range. I try to keep below 12 o clock since the AX8 can send a very hot signal, but it all depends on the next device and not clipping its input.

So there is no “this is where you need to put it” from a design standpoint. If so, it wouldn’t be a variable knob. The only exception is the Unity Gain as I explained above, again starting with Shunts only. Unity Gain is about what levels are in the preset, not just the knob all the way up.
 
chris said:
A preset with only Shunts and the Out level all the way up is Unity again. Only shunts. That means no blocks are increasing the level from there.

This is not the same as the VU meter being at the middle line. It just means the level going in is the same as the level going out.

Once you start adding blocks that add level - like Amp, Drive and others - you increase the output and are no longer at Unity Gain, regardless of the Out knob position. You probably have to reduce the preset volume a lot more than you did for it to work out - but I’m assuming, not knowing what comes after your AX8.

I believe AustinBuddy has a particular concept on preset levels. It makes sense from an overall audio technical standpoint, but requires a bit more understanding as to why it should be done that way.

In my understanding, the Out knobs are designed as a typical “volume knob” like on a radio or other gear. Set your Preset level to the VU meter in the AX8 - middle line for normal volume, softer or louder for softer or louder Presets - then turn up the Out knob until it’s loud enough for the next device in your signal path.

I usually say 9 o clock to 3 o clock is the best useable range. I try to keep below 12 o clock since the AX8 can send a very hot signal, but it all depends on the next device and not clipping its input.

So there is no “this is where you need to put it” from a design standpoint. If so, it wouldn’t be a variable knob. The only exception is the Unity Gain as I explained above, again starting with Shunts only. Unity Gain is about what levels are in the preset, not just the knob all the way up.
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Thank you! I am running the AX8 into a 2x12 Mission Gemini FRFR cab. The Gemini definitely sounded like it didn't like that hot of a signal with the OUT 1 Main at the max level.

I'll dial it back around 10 where I had it previously and follow your advice. :)
 
Mateo11 said:
Thank you! I am running the AX8 into a 2x12 Mission Gemini FRFR cab. The Gemini definitely sounded like it didn't like that hot of a signal with the OUT 1 Main at the max level.

I'll dial it back around 10 where I had it previously and follow your advice. :)
Click to expand...
yes, get the "loudness" you need from the Gemini. if you're cranking that thing all the way up, then you can instead get a bit more level from the AX8 and back off on the Gemini. it's all a bit of a balancing act.
 
I used to use the Output 1 as a volume knob and max the CLR or ASM-12. I purchased Austin Awesome Buddy's pack and his gain staging sounds significantly better. Setting volume for the CLR, the instructions say to turn the vol up until it overloads, then back it down a bit - Cliff's tickle the red. It sounds really good that way.

All his patches have equal volume or close to it. Stock presets, my own presets and Axechange patches have volume all over the place since everyone sets volume differently.

Maybe Cliff or M@ can chime in on how they gain stage. In the meantime, i'll FtFM again.
 
i want to clarify i'm not judging or comparing to AustinBuddy's methods at all. just saying my concept above, and how i believe it was designed based on my experience. AB's concept works really well, but as i mentioned, i think it helps to understand why it's done that way so you create your future presets the same way. there should be plenty of output regardless of how you set things.
 
The AX8 should sound great. If the signal is clipping or distorted, it is too hot for the receiving unit. I have played many venues with the AX8. I always run it at around 10 and then see how it sounds. Sometimes a little more or less output does the trick. I don't think there is a hard number that always works. If your AX8 is sounding bad there is likely reason for that.
 
There are really no rules written in stone but there are intended purposes (yes, you must use a power cable; yes, you must turn it on; yes, you must have it connected to a sound source, etc...). If the Outputs were only supposed to be set to max, would they really waste the time and money to put a level control on it? Point is, each user will develop their own approach and ultimately it comes down to what sounds right to each person.

Personally, I'll try other user's ideas and if they improve my tone I'll adopt those ideas. If they sound worse, I'll disregard those ideas. Some users will say their approach or idea is the secret sauce and/or the only correct way to get the most out of the product but again, it's up to what you hear and want from your tone.
 
I find that it depends on who is running the board that the ax8 is running to. I initially set my main output to max so the guy at the board will pad my incoming signal. From there, I’ll adjust to taste. I set my AX8 levels in my DAW with a -10db pad on the interface so that chugging, strumming, etc. comes in at around -12db.
 
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