Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal (new version)

Chronograph

Inspired
Hi there,

I was just experimenting with a prog rock/metal piece. Enjoy listening. Well.. if you have enough patience to listen to a 7-minute clip :roll:

http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?s ... value=7196

All guitars and bass are from Ultra. Hi gains are Orange and 5105. Some tracks with stock presents left unchanged, others with RedWires IRs - thanks for the tips Nolly!

Comments are welcome.

Dropbox link http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8688658/Trinity ... 20v1.5.mp3

Here is link to a new version:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8688658/Trinity ... 20v1.8.mp3

Guitars reEQed and quad tracked.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Chronograph,

Nice work, man :)
I like how it has breathing space - you got chops but you don't go all Yngwie on people's asses all the way through.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Very nice! I really liked the tapping part at 0:58!!! That clean tone was really nice!
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

D20 said:
Very nice! I really liked the tapping part at 0:58!!! That clean tone was really nice!

Many thanks.
The cleans are nice. Hi gain rhythm is another story though. To put it mildly, they are.. er.. average. Failed to tweak anything better. At the same time, I really like the fundamentals of the sound coming out from Ultra.

Looks like the rhythms just don't sit nicely in the mix. Have to work on EQ. Any tips are appreciated.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Wow! That's one awesome piece of music! Very reminiscent of old school Dream Theater. I think one of the key elements in that piece is the different melodies evoke different feelings from the listener, making it truly more of a "musical journey" (without sounding too cliche)
- Kyle
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

trubasser6778 said:
Wow! That's one awesome piece of music! Very reminiscent of old school Dream Theater. I think one of the key elements in that piece is the different melodies evoke different feelings from the listener, making it truly more of a "musical journey" (without sounding too cliche)
- Kyle

Kyle - many thanks. You got the point. Indeed I am a big big fan of the old DT stuff. Images & Words and Awake are a major source of my inspiration. Apart from the perfectly balanced rhythm section, they also bring to the listener all these amazing airy melodies I am so much impressed of. And you're right on the very conceptual thing - I was trying to capture the spirit of a musical journey.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Cleans are nice but the overdriven guitar parts sound like they were played with a synth. It's something I've heard before from my synth player with his "guitar" patch in his cheap synth. :) It's a taste issue in the end but all the nintendo-tones both synth and guitar -wise are a bit over the top for me. :)
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Clark Kent said:
Cleans are nice but the overdriven guitar parts sound like they were played with a synth. It's something I've heard before from my synth player with his "guitar" patch in his cheap synth. :) It's a taste issue in the end but all the nintendo-tones both synth and guitar -wise are a bit over the top for me. :)

Clark - any advice on improving the hi gain sound is appreciated.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Sure, I hope I didn't sound mean. You've got a good technique so it's just the tone that gets to me. Lead guitar was very good though... that's why I'm puzzled what went wrong with the rhythm guitars.

What cab sim did you use? (I use Recto2 and German with mic sim at NONE) You've got a tight noise gate... that should be a good thing but it sounds a bit unnatural at times. Are you using a single coil guitar? That's not necessarily a good thing for METAL.

This kinda sounds like something big went wrong. I don't even know how to make the Axe sound cheap but somehow this sounds like Waves GTR3 or something. Did you check if your guitars clipped when you recorded them. It almost sounds like it's going through a limiter. I've done a loooooooooooot of recordings with the Axe-Fx and I don't have to do any mixing at all to achieve the tones I want. Just AMP + CAB --> direct in ---> lowcut at 90hz and little compression and voilà.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Clark Kent said:
Sure, I hope I didn't sound mean. You've got a good technique so it's just the tone that gets to me. Lead guitar was very good though... that's why I'm puzzled what went wrong with the rhythm guitars.

What cab sim did you use? (I use Recto2 and German with mic sim at NONE) You've got a tight noise gate... that should be a good thing but it sounds a bit unnatural at times. Are you using a single coil guitar? That's not necessarily a good thing for METAL.

This kinda sounds like something big went wrong. I don't even know how to make the Axe sound cheap but somehow this sounds like Waves GTR3 or something. Did you check if your guitars clipped when you recorded them. It almost sounds like it's going through a limiter. I've done a loooooooooooot of recordings with the Axe-Fx and I don't have to do any mixing at all to achieve the tones I want. Just AMP + CAB --> direct in ---> lowcut at 90hz and little compression and voilà.

Clark - thanks. Although I don't really think the tone is Nintendo-ish, it surely needs adjusting. Probably my mistake was that I put a lot of plugins in Logic instead of building the sound within Ultra. Will try to do the sound in Ultra.

On the guitars - I used PRS Modern Eagle II for hi gain rhythm parts and Charvel San Dimas Custom Shop for solos and cleans. Both equipped with humbuckers.
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Chronograph, I enjoyed that very much! Nice arrangement and great chops! It did remind me a lot of DT "AWAKE" era, which is one of my fav DT albums.

As far as the rhythm tones, I don't think they sounded that bad but they were low in the mix. Are you double tracking the parts? That certainly helps in giving the rhythm parts a BIGGER sound. I remember reading that on the "Awake" album, JP quad tracked his parts. 2 tracks MKiic and 2 tracks Recto all panned hard left/right. Like Clark mentioned, a PEQ with a hi/low pass filter set from 60hz/.707Q - 12Khz/.707Q is a good starting point at least for me,YMMV. ;)
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Axisman5150 said:
Chronograph, I enjoyed that very much! Nice arrangement and great chops! It did remind me a lot of DT "AWAKE" era, which is one of my fav DT albums.

As far as the rhythm tones, I don't think they sounded that bad but they were low in the mix. Are you double tracking the parts? That certainly helps in giving the rhythm parts a BIGGER sound. I remember reading that on the "Awake" album, JP quad tracked his parts. 2 tracks MKiic and 2 tracks Recto all panned hard left/right. Like Clark mentioned, a PEQ with a hi/low pass filter set from 60hz/.707Q - 12Khz/.707Q is a good starting point at least for me,YMMV. ;)

Thanks. I've been experimenting with quad tracks for quite a time. Problem is - if the number of rhythm tracks is more than two, it starts clipping immediately. You have to chose then - either live with the clipping or do the record at very low volume. Limiters, compressors, Logic's proprietary Clip Distortion and the like just kill the dynamics :|
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Chronograph said:
Problem is - if the number of rhythm tracks is more than two, it starts clipping immediately. You have to chose then - either live with the clipping or do the record at very low volume. Limiters, compressors, Logic's proprietary Clip Distortion and the like just kill the dynamics :|

What levels are you recording at? Should keep the levels around -6db or less to give you available head room if necessary. Also, I just listened to your revised song and whatever you did made the guitar stand out in the mix much better than before. Good job! :D
 
Re: Orange/5105 - an attempt at Prog Rock/Metal

Axisman5150 said:
Chronograph said:
What levels are you recording at? Should keep the levels around -6db or less to give you available head room if necessary. Also, I just listened to your revised song and whatever you did made the guitar stand out in the mix much better than before. Good job! :D

Just uploaded a new version http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8688658/Trinity ... 20v1.8.mp3

EQ settings changed, guitars quad tracked now. I believe this one sounds better, doesn't it?
 
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