Implemented Option to make a block scene-independent

iaresee said:
Expanding scene revert here might be a nice middle ground. With an option to preserve not just the bypass state from scene-to-scene but also the channel selected on a block.
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I'm not sure tying this into scene revert somehow makes sense. Scene revert doesn't do either of those things currently.

A separate "exclude amp/cab from scene changes" global parameter might be less confusing. Or if we're not assuming this is only desirable for amp & cab blocks, give every block a "scene exclude" parameter with (none, channel, bypass, both) options. Ideally per-preset like any other block setting, but a global menu for all blocks would be better than nothing.
 
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Bakerman said:
I'm not sure tying this into scene revert somehow makes sense. Scene revert doesn't do either of those things currently.

A separate "exclude amp/cab from scene changes" global parameter might be less confusing. Or if weren't not assuming this is only desirable for amp & cab blocks, give every block a "scene exclude" parameter with (none, channel, bypass, both) options. (Ideally per-preset like any other block setting, but a global menu for all blocks would be better than nothing.
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I strongly reject a global per block type setting, has to be per preset. For one thing, as soon as you turned that on, all your existing presets would be fubar. For another, just because I want delay 1 disconnected from scenes in this preset, nothing says I want that anywhere else.

Not global please.
But please yes otherwise.
 
Bakerman said:
I'm not sure tying this into scene revert somehow makes sense. Scene revert doesn't do either of those things currently.

A separate "exclude amp/cab from scene changes" global parameter might be less confusing. Or if weren't not assuming this is only desirable for amp & cab blocks, give every block a "scene exclude" parameter with (none, channel, bypass, both) options. (Ideally per-preset like any other block setting, but a global menu for all blocks would be better than nothing.
Click to expand...
My idea was to add a select drop-down to all the blocks that lets you select from the following dynamically-filled choice list:
  1. Scene (default)
  2. None
  3. <other block in the preset>
  4. ...
  5. <other block in the preset>
To make a block's channel state independent of scene changes, select 'None'. To make a block follow channel state of any other block, select the leader block. This would be fairly simple to set up (from the user perspective), and you could have, say, comp/drive/amp/cab all switch together if you wanted....
 
Dave Merrill said:
I strongly reject a global per block type setting, has to be per preset. For one thing, as soon as you turned that on, all your existing presets would be fubar. For another, just because I want delay 1 disconnected from scenes in this preset, nothing says I want that anywhere else.

Not global please.
But please yes otherwise.
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Honestly, I'd like to have it global, or have an option for it to be global.

I guess it depends on how you're trying to use it.
 
I'd prefer to have this be per preset. In some presets I might want the autonomy to change the amp channels as I please (like a general jamming preset); but in others I completely intend for the amp channel to change along with the scene - i.e. a cleanish rhythm tone scene and a high gain solo scene.

Given that, I'm open to having a global option too, for those who would want it.
 
jefferski said:
I'd prefer to have this be per preset. In some presets I might want the autonomy to change the amp channels as I please (like a general jamming preset); but in others I completely intend for the amp channel to change along with the scene - i.e. a cleanish rhythm tone scene and a high gain solo scene.
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Exactly this....
 
Good ideas floated. I assume that no matter what state a block is in, "Exclude from Scene Changes" means it remains in it's current state (depending on how the new setting is config'd)?

@Bakerman's per preset block-level "Exclude from Scene Changes" (off, channel only, bypass state only, both) might be the biggest gain for lowest implementation cost.

@Joe Bfstplk's idea seems fancier and I think would require more U/I as well as dynamic switching to being able to "follow" another block. I think there there may risk of cycles/race conditions if two blocks refer to each other or else there has to be an assumed order or priority. [Dale, to clarify does "follow channel" mean if say the CAB block is set to follow the amp AMP block whose channel changes to C then the CAB would go to C as well?]

A global "Exclude from Scene Changes" feature (could be in addition to per preset) ideally would have a new setup screen allowing each block type (e.g. AMP1, COMP2) to be configured with something like:
- Priority: Off (default), Global (overrides preset settings for that block type), Preset (global settings are only applied if block level is off)​
- Action: Channel only, Bypass State only, Both​
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
My idea was to add a select drop-down to all the blocks that lets you select from the following dynamically-filled choice list:
  1. Scene (default)
  2. None
  3. <other block in the preset>
  4. ...
  5. <other block in the preset>
To make a block's channel state independent of scene changes, select 'None'. To make a block follow channel state of any other block, select the leader block. This would be fairly simple to set up (from the user perspective), and you could have, say, comp/drive/amp/cab all switch together if you wanted....
Click to expand...
I like this, a lot.

Having to faff around with controllers to get an EQ to go on and off and/or follow channels along with a drive block is unfortunate. It's implementation-centric, rather than user-centric.

Disconnecting a block from the scene when it's controlled by another one avoids both user confusion and implementation complexity.

Maybe remove None from those choices, and add a set of radio buttons for Applies To: Bypass State, Channel, Both, None.

There would need to be a few restrictions I think:
  • The block you choose to follow can't itself be following another one, to avoid loops.
  • Similarly, if a block is controlling another one, you can't set it to also follow one.
(You can have multiple blocks follow the same block though.)
 
yyz67 said:
@Joe Bfstplk's idea seems fancier and I think would require more U/I as well as dynamic switching to being able to "follow" another block. I think there there may risk of cycles/race conditions if two blocks refer to each other or else there has to be an assumed order or priority. [Dale, to clarify does "follow channel" mean if say the CAB block is set to follow the amp AMP block whose channel changes to C then the CAB would go to C as well?]
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Yes, 'follow channel' means exactly that.

The potential for looped linkage could be detected and avoided in the selection process, i.e., the list of other blocks could be dynamically filled and filtered of not just the current block (to prevent self-linking), but any block in the preset currently following that block. Either drop the blocks from the list or show them, but grayed out and disabled.
 
Dave Merrill said:
I like this, a lot.

Having to faff around with controllers to get an EQ to go on and off and/or follow channels along with a drive block is unfortunate. It's implementation-centric, rather than user-centric.

Disconnecting a block from the scene when it's controlled by another one avoids both user confusion and implementation complexity.

Maybe remove None from those choices, and add a set of radio buttons for Applies To: Bypass State, Channel, Both, None.

There would need to be a few restrictions I think:
  • The block you choose to follow can't itself be following another one, to avoid loops.
  • Similarly, if a block is controlling another one, you can't set it to also follow one.
(You can have multiple blocks follow the same block though.)
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The 'None' choice was there mainly to tell the block to not follow the scenes, with the secondary purpose of storing its channel state upon preset save, so an initial state upon preset selection could be set. I also considered that the logical choice for a 'leader' block, to which others could be chained in a flat list.

Theoretically, more than one 'leader' could be set up, and separate blocks assigned to follow each leader.

Perhaps the list of 'other blocks' in the current preset would be better as a list of blocks set to 'None' (leader blocks) in the current preset....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
The 'None' choice was there mainly to tell the block to not follow the scenes, with the secondary purpose of storing its channel state upon preset save, so an initial state upon preset selection could be set. I also considered that the logical choice for a 'leader' block, to which others could be chained in a flat list.

Theoretically, more than one 'leader' could be set up, and separate blocks assigned to follow each leader.

Perhaps the list of 'other blocks' in the current preset would be better as a list of blocks set to 'None' (leader blocks) in the current preset....
Click to expand...
Good plan.
 
Admin M@ said:
Yeah, that's right. So I think if I were to get behind any idea it would be that of @NeoSound in post #5 above. Blocks (or just amp and cab?) would need an option for "Exempt from Scene Changes".

I really can't imagine this would be a widely used feature though.
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I would use the fuck out of it. I'm just one user, but it would be a big help for me in the way I like to switch.
 
I too am looking for this feature.

In my case, I want the pitch block to be independent of scene changes. Bypass state can be made independent now via control switched, but I'd like to be able to switch between the different channels of the pitch block independently of scene changes, and there's no way to do that today (that I'm aware of).
 
David Whittingham said:
I too am looking for this feature.

In my case, I want the pitch block to be independent of scene changes. Bypass state can be made independent now via control switched, but I'd like to be able to switch between the different channels of the pitch block independently of scene changes, and there's no way to do that today (that I'm aware of).
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You can with an RJM midi controller.
 
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