Optimizing FRFR Volume - How?

RossE

RossE

Inspired
I am the new owner of two Yamaha DXR10s. Liking them a lot. Before this my AX8 experience was totally in the headphone/IEM world. Not surprisingly, my old presets aren't translating to the DXR10s very well. However, I'm finding that most of the factory presets sound great on the DXR10s with little tweaking, so I'm rebuilding my go-to presets using the the factory presets as starting points. Here is my issue.........

The factory presets are loud. Amp block output level is normally set to -12.

With the AX8 output 1 volume knob at 25%, the DXR10 level knobs set to about 25% and the factory presets with amp block output levels at -12, the DXR10s are blasting loud.

1) Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume the factory presets at -12 are set that way for some beneficial sonic reason.
2) I wonder if the DXR10s with level knobs at 25% are driving the amps enough to get the best sound from them.
3) I believe it is recommended for the AX8 output knobs to be turned up all the way for best sonic performance.

So with preserving the best signal chain and sound quality in mind, where is the best place to control the overall FRFR volume?

FRFR Amp Level knob
AX8 AMP Block Level
AX8 Output Level knob
AX8 Setup Global Gain fader
or....some combination of the above.
 
RossE said:
I am the new owner of two Yamaha DXR10s. Liking them a lot. Before this my AX8 experience was totally in the headphone/IEM world. Not surprisingly, my old presets aren't translating to the DXR10s very well. However, I'm finding that most of the factory presets sound great on the DXR10s with little tweaking, so I'm rebuilding my go-to presets using the the factory presets as starting points. Here is my issue.........

The factory presets are loud. Amp block output level is normally set to -12.

With the AX8 output 1 volume knob at 25%, the DXR10 level knobs set to about 25% and the factory presets with amp block output levels at -12, the DXR10s are blasting loud.

1) Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume the factory presets at -12 are set that way for some beneficial sonic reason.
2) I wonder if the DXR10s with level knobs at 25% are driving the amps enough to get the best sound from them.
3) I believe it is recommended for the AX8 output knobs to be turned up all the way for best sonic performance.

So with preserving the best signal chain and sound quality in mind, where is the best place to control the overall FRFR volume?

FRFR Amp Level knob
AX8 AMP Block Level
AX8 Output Level knob
AX8 Setup Global Gain fader
or....some combination of the above.
Click to expand...

You'd want to control your volume using both the AX8 output level knob and the DXR10's line in level. Ideally I'd want the DXR level to be set to where I can run between 3 o'clock up to 9 o'clock on the AX8 output and be at the intended volume. The AX8 output is simply a volume knob that does not alter the tone.

I'm not real clear on the Amp Block Level knob because it does vary for me. If I'm adding gain, master volume or treble boost, I sometimes have to lower the Amp Block down as low as -22db. I try to use the factory defaults as a check against my presets to make sure I'm in the ball park for volume. And of course the output level meter will help me make sure I'm not clipping and keep me level from scene to scene.

From what I've read here on the forum, it's best to get the most out of your AX8 signal and amplify that, especially when running into a DAW. For bedroom levels I'm at 3 oclock on both the DXR line in and the AX8 output. I've also run it max output AX8 and about 9 o'clock on the DXR10.... which hurts very much.
 
RossE said:
3) I believe it is recommended for the AX8 output knobs to be turned up all the way for best sonic performance.
Click to expand...
It really isn’t. At least not by anyone at Fractal Audio. The difference is so minimal in most situations, like yours.

Set your presets using the built in VU meter - last page of the main screen. Set your normal volume presets to the 0 line near the middle, louder presets to the right, etc.

This takes care of what I call the “internal volume” of the AX8. The -12dB really isn’t significant. The resulting number in the Amp level parameter is meaningless really. It’s just balancing all other sources of volume in the amp block (gain, trim, compression, etc.)

Then turn the AX8 output knob to 9 o clock. This is a great starting point since the AX8 is not noisy.

Then start with your speaker’s volume turned down and slowly raise it till it’s as loud as you need. If you reach the top of that dial, turn it back down, turn up the AX8 a bit, then turn up the speaker again.

There are many who will say to turn the AX8 volume knob all the way up. This is just one type of approach. If it works for you, no problem. I actually DO turn it all the way up when I run my own sound, but only so I have a consistent knob setting. Since I control the mixer, I know I can keep the channel gain all the way down.

But in my years of live experience, turning all the way up usually doesn’t work in the typical live environment, mixers, sound engineers, powered speakers, etc. Using a knob range of 9 to 3 o clock has worked the best.
 
Well that post went 7 hours without a bite, then two great responses. Thanks very much Bman and Chris. I was beginning to think it was a stupid question. You both agree 'between 9 and 3' on the output knob. Experience rules, so I will definitely land on something within that range.

Chris.......you say if I reach the top of the dial on the DXR10 level to adjust so it can come back down a bit. I assume you mean 12 o'clock, is that correct? I was playing with all the levels yesterday after my post. Since there is a detent in that knob at 12, I was liking that idea because it would be a sure and easily repeatable way to set both monitors at the same level right and left. Based on your experience, what was the downside of setting the DXR10 level that high?
 
I was confused, the detent is on level knob of the Main in on the DXR10. There is no 12 o'clock detent on the Line in level.
 
RossE said:
I was confused, the detent is on level knob of the Main in on the DXR10. There is no 12 o'clock detent on the Line in level.
Click to expand...

I meant 12 oclock on the db Level. Looking at the manual now. I think I mistakenly thought anything past noon or '0db' had extra gain boosted to a mic level. So to clarify, about +6db or about 9 oclock is as far as I've ever had the DXR10. And it was extremely loud......and clear.

Also, I'd defer to Chris in almost all matters. Most of my experience is based on research and a lot of that includes Chris' help. I do have a DXR10, so I can share my experience with it and happy to do so. The information shared in this forum has been so valuable and the experienced users are very patient, often answering the same questions... or correcting misguided advice. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask. If you reply directly to a post that person is flagged and 9 times out of 10 they'll respond.
 
RossE said:
Well that post went 7 hours without a bite, then two great responses. Thanks very much Bman and Chris. I was beginning to think it was a stupid question. You both agree 'between 9 and 3' on the output knob. Experience rules, so I will definitely land on something within that range.

Chris.......you say if I reach the top of the dial on the DXR10 level to adjust so it can come back down a bit. I assume you mean 12 o'clock, is that correct? I was playing with all the levels yesterday after my post. Since there is a detent in that knob at 12, I was liking that idea because it would be a sure and easily repeatable way to set both monitors at the same level right and left. Based on your experience, what was the downside of setting the DXR10 level that high?
Click to expand...
the detent is for "unity" on the speaker. that could serve as a good starting point. but you can turn up past that if you need to - that's why it's possible.

i actually meant if you physically turn the DXR knob as far as it can go and you're not loud enough, then turn it down, increase the AX8 volume knob a bit, then turn up the DXR again. it's basic Gain Stage stuff.

in summary, start at 9 o clock on the AX8. turn up the DXR till it's loud enough. from there, you can adjust either volume knob up or down as necessary. there isn't too much science behind this method - you're just balancing the knobs within some useable range.
 
The one other thing that wasn't touched on is the output setting in the AX8. Are you set at -10 or +4 dBu ? it will make a huge difference in volume.
 
I have a DXR10 as my backline speaker. It's freaking loud. I find it to be very linear in terms of sound quality, along my range, usually between 8 and 9, rarely at 10. Most often I'm the only guitar playing in a cover band, and my bandmates are not excessively loud. I've assumed (unscientifically) this is because it's a PA speaker with a fairly linear class-D amp. I don't feel subjectively that I'm losing sound quality from the DXR at this level, even though there's a ton of volume left on tap.

After preset tweaking on my studio monitors, once I'm over the Fletcher Munson loudness/flatness threshold (92 db - ish), the presets tend to translate well to the DXR (except the DXR has more thump, so I use the low-cut switch).

I keep the AX8 output at 12-3 live, so there's room to go either way without messing with the DXR volume pot. Again, unscientific, but works for me.

With the AX8 next to my desk, going through my interface via SPDIF, I keep the output pot maxed as a consistent reference, and level my presets at -12 on my console meters. This seems to keep the presets relatively consistent with each other.
 
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