Opinions and Help Needed

4406cuda

Inspired
I just installed a couple of Celestion F12-X200 in Bogner 1x12 cabinets. The tones are a little fizzy and underwhelming. I am powering the cabs with a Matrix amp. I have the amp block set to FRFR and tried several cab blocks. I liked the LT 7 mix the best. I also used the preamp in the cab block to remove frequencies below 80 hz and above 10khz. I tried many amps and factory presets. I am playing at live band volume.

I had Celestion Alnico Creams in the Bogners and they sounded pretty good with the AXE III. However, I wanted to take advantage of the cab blocks and being able to hear what the audience hears if I send a signal to FOH. I was hoping the F12-X200 would give me the AITR feel and sound better than a traditional guitar cab setup.

Before I take the Celestions back out, is there any settings I should try to get rid of the fizzy sounds I hear.

If I get a EV PXM-12MP, will it sound much better than the Celestion F12’s?

Thank you in advance!
 
Remember that a modeler into FRFR is like an amp into a mic'd cab into a monitor.

It's not intended to sound like an cab in the room.

Try other IRs, try lowering the High Cut further... Maybe down to 5-6k. Use ears not eyes
 
Remember that a modeler into FRFR is like an amp into a mic'd cab into a monitor.

It's not intended to sound like an cab in the room.

Try other IRs, try lowering the High Cut further... Maybe down to 5-6k. Use ears not eyes
I will try your suggestions.

I did use the input EQ in the amp block to cut the highs around 5.5k. I will try cutting it at the speaker preamp instead.

In your opinion, is there a solution that will give you the best of both worlds?
 
I will try your suggestions.

I did use the input EQ in the amp block to cut the highs around 5.5k. I will try cutting it at the speaker preamp instead.

In your opinion, is there a solution that will give you the best of both worlds?
The Amp block 'Input EQ' is not going to help you here. The dry guitar sound entering the Amp doesn't really have any high frequencies to cut. This happens when distortion is added. You should use the Low and High Cut parameters in the Cab block.

Read up on Pre and Post EQ if you can. Or experiment with moving and EQ block to different points in a typical signal chain and observe the results. Same with effect blocks. Some will sound very different before or after the Amp/cab.
 
The Amp block 'Input EQ' is not going to help you here. The dry guitar sound entering the Amp doesn't really have any high frequencies to cut. This happens when distortion is added. You should use the Low and High Cut parameters in the Cab block.

Read up on Pre and Post EQ if you can. Or experiment with moving and EQ block to different points in a typical signal chain and observe the results. Same with effect blocks. Some will sound very different before or after the Amp/cab.
Okay, thank you
 
Another thing to consider is that your modified 'FRFR' cabs are likely not very 'FR' (flat response). Those cabs (and ports?) are possibly not the recommended dimensions from Celestion for that particular speaker.
If the cabinets are not the same internal dimensions then the sound could easily be different than what Celestion spec’d.
But hey, they might sound great?
Yep. Or they might sound wrong. It’s all about the physics.
 
If the cabinets are not the same internal dimensions then the sound could easily be different than what Celestion spec’d.

Yep. Or they might sound wrong. It’s all about the physics.
I am not sure what the internal dimensions are of the Bogner Cube 1x12, but the are ported and closed back.
 
At the risk of me sounding very stupid.....why not turn off the CAB block in the AXE FX?
You are running the AXE FX3 into a MATRIX GT1000FX >> Bogner 1 x12 cabinets with Celestion F12-X200 correct?
You are using the Bogner CABs like FRFR's but they are actual real CABs.

I run my AXE FX3 into a MATRIX GT1000FX >> 1 X12 Jet City CAB with a Celestion G12 V30 in it. I turn off the CAB block in the AXE FX3.
It sounds great to me. Better than when I use my FRFR monitors with CAB blocks on. Yes, I am then using the same CAB/speaker with all presets.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the signal chain. Sorry if I am missing something obvious.
 
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They’re good speakers. I use the LT Mix 7 on many of my presets. As pointed out FRFR is different than regular cabs. It took me awhile to get used to it. I went from a Headrush 112 to a F12 mounted in an open back 112. Big improvement. Built a modified spec cab and it’s good but not much better than it was in the open back. Maybe the F12’s don’t like the Bogners. Try sealing off one of the ports. They appear to be pretty big and you have 2 of them. The spec cab has a single 4” port. Don’t be afraid to make big adjustments. FRFR is much brighter than a guitar cab so you will need big cuts to make it sound good. Best luck!
 
+1 for trying with one port closed off, two ports might not allow for enough pressure in the cab or may create phase issues reducing low frequency content.

Other than this the overall volume for the cab might not be quite right. I remember Paul from Zilla being quite specific with the dimensions when he built mine, they also have some wadding in there to dampen.

I have two F12’s each in 1x12 single port closed back cabs and they sound exceptional when driven by a Matrix GT1000FX.

I generally use a 57/121 IR pair, I make no cuts in the cab block only using amp controls to shape tone and the output is full and quite well balanced.
 
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Might need to look more into what IR's you are using in particular as well. You may need to do something like have one IR with a SM57 blended with something like a royer 121 to darken it up. Maybe even just try the 121 IR's by themselves.

The hi cut is useful and great in the cab block but personally I like to try to get the tone I want as close as possible before messing with those controls.

Lots of ways to get there though, you can use the 57/121 combo, if that doesn't work, 121 by itself and then apply some low cut in the cab block to make it not so woolly sounding. There's practically infinite combos to get to the right end result.
 
At the risk of me sounding very stupid.....why not turn off the CAB block in the AXE FX?
You are running the AXE FX3 into a MATRIX GT1000FX >> Bogner 1 x12 cabinets with Celestion F12-X200 correct?
You are using the Bogner CABs like FRFR's but they are actual real CABs.

I run my AXE FX3 into a MATRIX GT1000FX >> 1 X12 Jet City CAB with a Celestion G12 V30 in it. I turn off the CAB block in the AXE FX3.
It sounds great to me. Better than when I use my FRFR monitors with CAB blocks on. Yes, I am then using the same CAB/speaker with all presets.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the signal chain. Sorry if I am missing something obvious.
Because they are FRFR speakers not guitar speakers...
 
Because they are FRFR speakers not guitar speakers...
Yes. Every part of the signal chain is important and has to be considered.

Treat full range speakers inside formerly guitar cabinets as FRFR speakers, but accept that the cabinet and speaker might not sound as good as the speakers were designed to because the physics are not right.
 
Have been looking into similar (last comment here) - Following this from some time here there and everywhere, it appears that there could be some leeway in the Celestion cab spec but there's a limit - at some point the x200 may become just another (maybe quite odd) guitar speaker and not an FR speaker as designed - the fuzzy part seems to be determining where that limit is.
 
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