On the fence between Axe FX II and Kemper Profiling Amp

I have tried a Kemper but settled on an A2. The Kemper has an odd tone going on I just can't put my finger on. Tones aside the MFC makes the A2 an unbeatable package live.
 
Independently of which one you choose you should keep coming to this forum. People here are really great and there is always something cool/interesting/funny being discussed. It is actually the only website I can say I visit every single day. Also keep in mind how frequently Cliff (who in my opinion is the guitar world's equivalent of PC's John Carmack) updates the Axe FX II. You can be sure the Axe you buy today will be an even more impressive system one year from now. How often can you say that when a piece of electronic equipment is concerned?
 
On that FW tweaking forever thing; There's two types of Axe guys.

Guy one gets an update and notices something different. Maybe the bass increased along with thump , feel, whatever. Guy one understands the changes, reads the release notes, adjust the two parameters suggested or just turns down the bass or whatever and is happy. It's different but he likes it better. That is his experience every FW update. Lately the changes are too subtle to even want to turn a knob so guy one just enjoys now.


Guy two gets an update and everything's ruined. He wants it back exactly like it was. He fails to realize some changes are not reversible so he goes deep trying to get that one magic sound he had and loved. He gets close and is kinda happy until the next FW. He perceives changes again and again is negative. Oh crap, it's all ruined. He again tries to get back to square one. His mind doesn't encompass the subtle but tangible benefit he is getting, he only sees his super, never before existed, never again will, tone from God disappear before his eyes. That dropped C chord over and over will never be as chunky.....ever!


Both guys are actually experiencing the same thing, the evolution of digital modeling at it's current state of the art. The attempt to realize a perfected tube amp and cab in the form of 1s and 0s is occurring/has occurred. It is more complicated than other formats of amp recreation as it attempts to delve in to the inner working down to the smallest detail of an actual circuit and recreate it faithfully at every possible setting including the random acts of madness such circuits create.

Does it progress and does that provide a source of ridicule from those not involved? Sure does. From the outside it's a complicated mess of nonsense worsened by the frequent "Eureka, we found it " post of overzealous Axe owners. Guy one loves the ride and adjusts in minutes to the progressive improvements. Guy two is constantly frustrated and is only confused further with additional improvements. Johnny Forum Poster who had never played one sits online making fun of both guys without a clue but because it amuses him.

Guess who posts the most of these folks? Guy two and Johnny Forum Poster. Guy one spends more time playing. And so it goes.


Ps: Guy two often become a Kemper owner which leads to his profound "Oh boy it never changes "euphoria and his disdain for all things Axe which had ruined his blossoming music career. He frequently posts in any comparison thread.

In the end both guy one and guy two are happy and so should STFU pretty much. Not all things are for all people.
 
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zentman said:
On that FW tweaking forever thing; There's two types of Axe guys.

Guy one gets an update and notices something different. Maybe the bass increased along with thump , feel, whatever. Guy one understands the changes, reads the release notes, adjust the two parameters suggested or just turns down the bass or whatever and is happy. It's different but he likes it better. That is his experience every FW update. Lately the changes are too subtle to even want to turn a knob so guy one just enjoys now.

Guy two gets an update and everything's ruined. He wants it back exactly like it was. He fails to realize some changes are not reversible so he goes deep trying to get that one magic sound he had and loved. He gets close and is kinda happy until the next FW. He perceives changes again and again is negative. Oh crap, it's all ruined. He again tries to get back to square one. His mind doesn't encompass the subtle but tangible benefit he is getting, he only sees his super, never before existed, never again will, tone from God disappear before his eyes. That dropped C chord over and over will never be as chunky.....ever!
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Guy one here. I don't run more than a few presets that matter, so it's usually simple for me. These days I just get confused when I mess around because so many amps sound great.
 
zentman said:
Andy from the amp factory gave a pretty fair comparison until the end when he states "Speaking Personally, I prefer the Kemper also, as it feels like an amp, as where the Axefx feels like a emulation of an amp.".

Nowhere does he state: "By the way I make a ton of money selling profiles but can't make a dime off the Axe. This in no way influences my review at all" :)
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Well, on the defense of Andy, he wrote this to me (he's a very nice guy, we exchanged many emails out IRs) : "However...as I have both.. they cannot be compared. - I like the Axe for different reasons, and it offers a totally new approach. the Kemper is just plug and play (as that's the point) but if you really want to go into detail then the axe is suited better for those individuals who want more.. My only gripe with the Kemper, is lack of decent effects. (mostly verb and delays) the axe really shines here."
The Axe he's talking about is one of his friends, he has it in the studio. Looks like a very fair comparison to me :)
 
I don't get the guys that tweak a lot either. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just assume they hear things I cannot and are picky about it.

I just pick the amp and play. There are just a few controls I adjust, TMB, gain, and MV. Maybe changing a cab, that has a huge effect. That and turning the dang thing up so the neighbors can hear. haha.

I was checking out a prs in GC the other day, and took it into the amp room. As I looked at all the boogies, marshalls, bogners, etc, I felt familiar with all of them. There was a tiny Deluxe Reverb hidden in the corner, and I went right over to it. It was good.

Upon reflection it was like being in my living room, playing through the axe, barely tweaking the amp just playing, but with all those choices around me. And the Deluxe sounded just like I'm used to as well. I think it took me longer to figure out how to turn it on than to set the knobs.

Best investment I ever made was getting the AXE. I'm going to get the PRS too, just not that one.

Let us know what you decide.
 
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I compared the two head-to-head twice and the Axe-FX II won out for me both times.

The Kemper is a great device and I'd own one if there was no Axe-FX. It sounded and felt amp-like to me, even though the profiled version of an amp had obvious noticeable differences when compared. I really didn't find the interface that intuitive. You have big knobs for the "channel strip EQ" that comes after the recorded amp tone, but it wasn't intuitive at all to make more substantial adjustments to the amp guts. I guess coming from an amp building background, this is one of the things that hooked me on the axe-fx. I *love* being able to make adjustments under the hood.

Tonewise, I never encountered a tone on the Kemper that I couldn't easily knock off with the Axe-FX, but there were plenty of things I could do on the axe-fx that I couldn't do on the kemper, both in terms of tone and in terms of features. The looper was a big one for me, as was parallel routing and non-guitar applications. The Kemper can't seem to do the nastier non-desirable types of distortion. I profiled an amp that obviously had blocking distortion and it wasn't represented in the profile. I don't *like* blocking distortion in terms of my normal guitar tone, but if I was going to use something like that in the context of music, I'd be out of luck.

I also found the vast majority of profiles useless to me. On the axe-fx, I can take almost any amp and bend it to my will because the thing is so flexible. On the kemper, it mostly came down to you like the profile or not and if you don't, go through another hundred profiles.

Lastly- and the kicker for me, the KPA wasn't even in the same ballpark in terms of flexibility running direct and to a guitar cab at the same time. It has a feature where it can simulate removing the cabinet but it doesn't sound at all remotely like removing the cab. I actually bought another KPA a year later to try this feature again since it had been improved but it just wasn't there for me. If you only run FRFR, it doesn't matter. For me, I enjoy using a real guitar cabinet. There was also a tiny fraction of profiles available of DI'd amps instead of the baked-in cabinet, which severely limited the selection.

The Axe-FX II front panel controls take a bit of adjustment, but in short order, it made complete sense to me and it never feels in-the-way. By comparison, the KPA felt foreign and in-the-way to me unlike other devices I've used over the years, but I'll chalk that up to unfamiliarity.

I didn't like the eternity it took for the KPA to boot up. That was one of the complaints I had about the 11R both times I tried one also.

I didn't like having to move profiles to it via a USB stick instead of just connecting it to a computer and auditioning them individually. Not a show stopper, since I don't really like using other peoples presets that much anyway. On the KPA, you're always using someone else's presets unless you profile your own amps.

99% of the time on the Axe-FX, I'm playing the Friedman BE. I flirt with other amps, but I can just get my sound from the Friedman, so that's what I play. You don't have to have 200 rigs set up for it to make sense.

Still, the KPA is a great product with a lot of innovation baked-in. I'd own one if it were a lot cheaper or if there were no axe-fx. I'm pretty sure I'd buy a used Axe-FX Ultra before I'd own a KPA just from the flexibility of it. I loved my Ultra before and probably could again.

That's my take on it. Both of these are competent devices that people love.
 
fremen said:
Well, on the defense of Andy, he wrote this to me (he's a very nice guy, we exchanged many emails out IRs) : "However...as I have both.. they cannot be compared. - I like the Axe for different reasons, and it offers a totally new approach. the Kemper is just plug and play (as that's the point) but if you really want to go into detail then the axe is suited better for those individuals who want more.. My only gripe with the Kemper, is lack of decent effects. (mostly verb and delays) the axe really shines here."
The Axe he's talking about is one of his friends, he has it in the studio. Looks like a very fair comparison to me :)
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Sorry if I made him come off as a bad guy. He is certainly entitled to his opinion. I'm sure he's a great person but his affiliation with one company makes his reviews , whether true or not, seemed slightly biased. It's pretty much what people would say if Scott Peterson did a Fractal/Kemper shoot out.
 
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zentman said:
Sorry if I made him come off as a bad guy. He is certainly entitled to his opinion. I'm sure he's a great person but his affiliation with one company makes his reviews , whether true or not, seemed slightly biased. It's pretty much what people say would say if Scott Peterson did a Fractal/Kemper shoot out.
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Zealots from either camp are just that to me.... zealots. I personally don't read too much into the vitriol other than the posters are zealots.

As far as TAF, I don't know Andy but the posts I've read make him appear to be good people. And kudos to him for making a living doing something with music, guitar amps and all that. I applaud everyone that figures out how to keep the beautiful noises happening!
 
zentman said:
Sorry if I made him come off as a bad guy. He is certainly entitled to his opinion. I'm sure he's a great person but his affiliation with one company makes his reviews , whether true or not, seemed slightly biased. It's pretty much what people say would say if Scott Peterson did a Fractal/Kemper shoot out.
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Don't pull me into comparisons like that man. You'd be surprised if I did a shootout; assumed/perceived bias or not. I have a much more open mind that you obviously assume. Perception does not equal reality, especially on the Web.

Frankly, I'd just leave the KPA guys on their forum alone and all this 'cross forum' debate and arguing back and forth is needlessly done. It serves no purpose Zent.
 
I just love the fact that if you own an Axe Fx II and can't get good tone on recordings, it's your fault plain and simple. More than enough tone to make anyone sound pro in 5 minutes, provided they can play guitar well.
 
Scott Peterson said:
Don't pull me into comparisons like that man. You'd be surprised if I did a shootout; assumed/perceived bias or not. I have a much more open mind that you obviously assume. Perception does not equal reality, especially on the Web.

Frankly, I'd just leave the KPA guys on their forum alone and all this 'cross forum' debate and arguing back and forth is needlessly done. It serves no purpose Zent.
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Like it or not Scott, you are generally perceived as a Fractal shill on many forums. It may not be true but my analogy stands. You just read a personal insult in to what I typed. I am more than certain you are fair and balanced but it is what it is. Go to Rig Talk, GAB, TGP, or anywhere they discuss this topic. Mention Scott Peterson and see what follows. Same thing with me if it makes you feel less alone. I am perceived as the poster child for Fractal fanboyism. In my case it's probably because I am. :)

As to other forums, when I see BS I call it period. My statements on that forum have been nothing but glowing praise for the Kemper product. I will call someone out once or twice a year there if I see an obvious mis-statement regarding Fractal, whether intentional or not. "Buy an Axe and do nothing but tweak. Buy a Kemper and play guitar" is just one of those things I call folks on. Time for that meme to die.
 
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zentman said:
Like it or not Scott, you are generally perceived as a Fractal shill on many forums. It may not be true but my analogy stands. You just read a personal insult in to what I typed. I am more than certain you are fair and balanced but it is what it is. Go to Rig Talk, GAB, TGP, or anywhere they discuss this topic. Mention Scott Peterson and see what follows. Same thing with me if it makes you feel less alone. I am perceived as the poster child for Fractal fanboyism. In my case it's probably because I am. :)
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My response would simply be: Who cares? Why should anyone care about others' perceptions about anything? I think the only foul here is putting words in other guitar players' mouths.
 
One more thing,

I am a probably over sensitive to fan noise. Whatever device I buy is going to set 2 feet in front of me on my desk 24/7. Does the Axe FX II still have a noisy fan or has this been helped out with newer FW updates?

The Kemper has no fan and my Macs have no fan. I usually play in a quiet environment at bedroom levels. My pet peeves are fan noise and high frequency whine from CRT or plasma displays.

I realize this is a fairly minor thing and not a show stopper but I was just wondering if this was an issue at all anymore?
 
With the Mark I AxeFx II, I think the fan noise varies... mine is in my mix room in an open back rack cabinet built into the mix desk and its not objectionable. But I did read some folks did have issues so I assumed their case was different.
 
My Mark I makes no noise that bothers me or my wife. My playing?? Maybe my wife ;)

Anyway: Play loud :D
 
FractalAudio said:
The Kemper feels really weird to me. There's this strange "plock plock" in the pick attack. The distortion doesn't sound realistic to me either which isn't surprising since it lumps all the distortion into one adjustable waveshaper and doesn't model the nonlinearity around the origin.

Some people love it though (especially those who sell profiles ;-). Different strokes...
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And there you have it. People these days don't bother to think in nonlinearities. God forbid life throws an exponent into the mix. You ask someone to square something and their libel to throw it in a cardboard box. :disgust:

If it wasn't for this complete lack of regard for the intricacies of sound waves as they relate to electromagnetic forces amplifed through vacuum tube amplifiers, there'd be Axe FX II modelers coming out the woodwork!

People in this world need to "Harden the F*&!K UP!"

For more on that, watch this interesting video I found on Youtube. This guy is really on to something.
 
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