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Wish On-board amp reverb (and tremolo?)

Larry Kehl

Inspired
Similar to this thread , f I tack on to that thread I’m afraid it will get “drowned out" since it’s already had multiple " just use an effects loop," etc.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/real-compatible-spring-reverb.148525/

For all amps, especially in last three or four FW updates, there are many, many new/differnt interactive parameters for power amp (grid bias, negative feedback,…) and preamps (hardness, tone stack types, …) not to mention power section transformers – speaker interactions.

With all those interactive parameters and signal flow interactions required: why is there no “insertion point” between the preamp and the power amp for a spring reverb? Yes I know a real amp you need a tank driver & recovery circuit. I'm just asking to re-look at it and if you go there may as well put in a series a tube tremolo (and/or vibrato – aka Magnatone like).

A mic'ed amp that has on-board (organic) reverb is a different sound than a mic'ed amp with reverb added later. Sorry they are different sounds, at least in my age challenged humble opinion. At least I'm not claiming "my 1968 Every Ready carbon 9V batteries sound completely different in my Fuzzface than my 1969 Rayovac 9V carbon batteries” ;)

Thanks for reading
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Doesn’t the amp block tremolo circuit already work this way?

reverb obviously is different, but I thought the tremolo settings at least factored into the amp modeling
 

Larry Kehl

Inspired
Yes my oversight I got caught up in reverb in an amp thing – so yep my mistake.

Although, amplifier tremolo in the current power supply section, even with depth at 100 and variac at min (50%) and playing with other parameters (b+, sag, etc.), never gets that "oomph " or "thump" of depth I expect. The included FX Pan/Trem function does it better and I can use/live with the included pan/trem. block. I guess I’m just use to tremolo on my very old amps Gibson Falcon and Fender Deluxe.

However, that doesn't address wish for integrated amp vibrato (FM versus simple AM) (e.g., Magnatone’s and more modern Juke/Warbler-Muse’s – like my 1210). The included (chorus, flanger, pitch) FX blocks sort of cover this (if you fiddle enough) but not really FM, and it's not integrated with signal flow out back end of preamp signal so doesn’t have the same “warble” sound, especially if you want slow.

Again this is just a wish list and I'm just "wishing." Also I get that this is a <1% wished for mod/addon.
 

Larry Kehl

Inspired
Try putting the reverb before the amp?
I already put reverb in front because it does sound better then after; however, as I said "it is not quite right" at least to my admittedly failing ears.

Looks like a dead horse item, but as an O-6 once told me "there is no horse so dead it can't be beat some more" so I'll beat on this horse, one last time, then I'm out.

I'm an old (really old) tube-tech tech from 60's and I respectfully disagree with Cliff in the Yek referenced link (same FAS Cliff?): "effectively in front" and "in front" are not the the same. Having later switched from electronics as a career field to being a mathematician the rest of my life I understand "commutative" and Abelian groups in general, but in this case commutative is not a good analogy.

Applying reverb before amp (in physical amps) yields the tone stack plus some initial, albeit small, wave shaping being applied to the already reverberated signal coming in, instead of to just the input signal prior to a reverb tank driver. Even if allowed that Fender's were truly a "pure signal commutative" device with respect to "signal into reverb into preamp into power amp" was electronically and audibly identical to "signal into preamp into reverb into power amp" there are other amps with reverb designs that are not Fender's.
 
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