Okay - so I found the balls...

plyall

plyall

Power User
... to post something on SoundCloud. It's pretty rough musically, but I'm really looking for feedback on the mix. I just got Superior Drummer 2, and figured out how to integrate it with Logic 9. I had a ball mixing this, but then again, I may be way off base!

The drum pattern (sadly - used throughout the jam) was done using an Octapad-80 and a DR-880 drum machine, dumped into Logic and them fed to SD2.

The rhythm, solo, and bass tracks were done in one pass, so feel free to hammer me on those...

Guitar work was all AXE-FX II, using Mark Day's 'Don't Tell Me You Love Me' patch, albeit with different EQ's and pickups.

In any case, I was trying to emulate a 1980's sound (think Boston), and I hope I got it.

https://soundcloud.com/pete-lyall-1/first-cut-80s-a-raw-cut-clams

Hope you like seafood - plenty of clams!
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Pete
 
Enjoyed it musically. It just needs some mix adjusting between the tracks and some EQing. Great tune though. :)
 
Thanks for taking the time!

Can you recommend what you might like to hear different? Inquiring minds.... :geek
 
Now mind you I was listening on 5.1 computer speakers, not monitors, but the drums sounded way compressed and lacking in dynamics. You could try some EQ adjustments on them to make them sit in the mix a little better. I'm guessing they sounded compressed like that from the source(?), so there's not much you can do about that. Some EQ on them though could help to give them a more full range sound. Right now they sound like they're mostly upper mids to highs. Try to bring out some low end on them and maybe adjust down those upper mids just a bit. The rhythm track could be a bit more present in the mix as well. When I listen to the track, I hear drums and lead mostly. I'd bring the level up on it a bit to make it a little more present. Not a lot, but just enough to stand out a little more. Again, I dig the tune a lot. These are just some random thoughts on what I heard mix-wise. I'd have to listen on monitors or a good set of headphones to give more accurate comments about it. Keep up the great work!
 
Cool stuff. Bring up the bass and kick.. That will give it some more punch. I listened to this at work, with some logitech speakers. Many would go trough this kind of speakers, so test the track/mix with laptop, PC speakers, Hi-fi speakers and whatever you got availeble. Then you suddenly hear stuff appering or disappering in the mix. But yes. Keep up the good work :)
 
I really liked it. And I'm so glad you found your balls ;)
Listening on pc speakers but still agree with Thomas though on the snare. A bit to loud.
 
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Wow! Thanks to all of you for the sage advice.

DLM - I'm not sure if Superior Drummer 2 uses compressed drums or not - I'm hedging towards not, because they have a 'rack' in the application where you can insert a compressor. That said, I _am_ compressing it in Logic. I'll take it out, or really reduce it (Q: I thought all snares were supposed to be compressed?). I'll add some more beef to the snare as well - I was trying to keep the low/mid area from being too congested, but I may have gone overboard. On the bass drum, hmm. I'm mixing with a Subwoofer (Event 15") and I was also using the UA DSP plugin VOG (Voice of God) to extend the low end, and it really shakes the place here. Maybe what I need to do is shut off the subwoofer when mixing. Also, this room and the Focal/Event monitors are hardly tuned.

On the rhythm part, I also rolled off a lot of the low end to keep the lower half of the spectrum from being too muddy. I can certainly add some heft and level to bring it more to the front. Thanks for the idea!

Kriig - you are so right - I should have also listened using consumer grade/PC tabletop speakers (except I'll need to get some :). I should have at least listened to it through my hi-fi system to see how it translated. I think I was over confident that my new Focal monitors AND the subwoofer were giving it to me true. Looks like I need to do some leveling and try things after that.

Ole/Thomas - good idea. I was trying to make the snare and kick very present, but it looks like I got too much snare, and too little bass. With the other comments, I think that I may be looking at a bass-heavy monitoring configuration that needs some attention.

Guys - thanks SO much for all of this feedback. I'm learning things that I should have known a long time ago. I'm definitely going to do a remix tonight!

Maybe if I get truly zealous, I'll even record over the clams :lol

Pete
 
Okay guys. I took each and every bit of feedback to heart, and I mucked with it for hours, I added some low end, tightened it a bit, brought up the rhythm guitar, dropped the snare, got the solo more or less under control, and added some overall punch. This time I also added a tasteful amount of the Izotope Ozone 5 plugin. I tried it on my studio system, my upstairs Mac (has some M-Audios and a sub), and then finally on the main hi-fi in the house. I'm reasonably happy with it, courtesy of the feedback. Would you all mind giving it a second listen?

https://soundcloud.com/pete-lyall-1/80s-working-title-take-2-remix

Pete
 
Rhythm track is a little too loud now. It's fighting with the lead. Knock it back a little and raise the bass track some. The bass is kinda getting buried in it. Maybe put back a tiny bit of upper mids, lower highs in the drums. The whole thing still sounds really compressed. Do you have a compressor running on the master in your recording program? I think the reason the bass is getting buried is because the bass tone on that track is too mellow and rounded for this type of a song. The tone itself would be great in a motown tune or jazz or something like that, but for rock it's kind of getting lost.

What kind of a bass did you use to record it? I'd suggest sticking a filter block in after the amp block and setting it to 75-80hz. It'll keep the bass tone but cut out some of that rounded bottom. Also, use a bass with a bridge pickup if you're not already, and use that pickup so you can get more modulation out of it rather than the bassy, rounded tone that you'd get out of a P-bass. It'll help it to stand out more in the mix. You could probably get away with the filter set to 60hz, but I'd suggest you experiment between 60hz and 80hz and find the tone you like and that sits the best in the mix.
 
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DLM -

Okay - I can fix that. I also should probably drop the stereo spreader that I have on the rhythm track. On the bass - okay. I was worried about bringing it too forward, and I'm trying to keep it and the kick from stepping on each other. BTW - you're right about (at least the original) bass tone - I was going more for a 'feel it' sound than a 'hear it' sound - probably an artifact of being raised in the 60's. Good advice on tweaking it for a rock genre. I used a Fender P-Bass deluxe (split pickups and a big fat humbucking), but mostly on the neck pickup(s). Why the bass with the treble pickup? I'm not going for a super prominent bass tone, so wouldn't that make it more like a third guitar than a bass? In any case, I will certainly try it. Is there a kind of tune where the neck pickup is a better choice? BTW - I'm running the bass in through a UA-6176 direct into the interface (FireFace-800). That has some light compression, which I thought was a good thing on a bass - right? Should I be running it out to an amp as well and mic the amp? I have an SWR Working Man's 15" that I could use. I also DI the bass so I can reamp if necessary (before the 6176).

Regarding compression on the overall tune... I did add an insert with an Ozone5 instance on the stereo out. I backed way off on the maximizer and the exciter that were in the preset, but apparently you're still hearing something in there. I liked it for the overall sheen that it gave, but could easily bypass it. Your ears amaze me - how can you hear compression like that? :roll

Again - thanks for all of your input!

Pete
 
Alright - so I have taken all of the feedback (thanks!). Aside from working on the mix (hours - really), I re-recorded the bass and used a different snare in SD2, and tried this on 4 different sets of speakers. My biggest fear is that those who have bass-heavy EQ on their speakers may find this a bit bassy. Aside from that, I'm reasonably happy with it. Let the blood-letting begin! :mrgreen

Pete

https://soundcloud.com/pete-lyall-1/wave-master-v4
 
I'd still say the rythm is a bit to loud.
On my pc the lead dissapears alot.
I still find the drums a bit.. hmm hard to explain.
Other then that you are getting there:)
 
+1.. Rythm a tad down.. or eq the rythm a little. Maybe try mid freq down a tad to float with the bass and fight less with the lead. Did you use the same preset/amp on rythm/lead?
 
Ole - I can drop the rhythm some more. In fact, I am sorta worried about losing it entirely, as it sounded somewhat subdued on the systems I listened to it on. Regarding the solo - have you ever heard of a guitar player that didn't want it turned up? 8) Seriously - I was a little worried, as one of the earlier remarks was about hearing too much solo. Up it goes. Your remark about the drums scares me a little. I'm not sure how to interpret 'hard to explain'. Yikes! The bass drum has some higher end EQ on it to pick up the beater, and it also uses a UA VOG plugin (low end enhancer). I was hoping that if I got anything right, it was a punchy bass drum. The snare - no longer compressed, has some 'beef' EQ in the mids, and a bit of high end for the crack. I'm using just a smidgeon of reverb (almost inaudible) from my PCM90 on a send as well. The only thing left are some hats. Any tips? Should I just strip all EQ and processing?

Kriig - crud. I did use the same patch on the rhythm and lead, but the solo is all on the neck pickup, and the rhythm is on the bridge. I can try the EQ first, and then if that doesn't do it, I will reamp it through another patch (I recorded a DI for all of the bass/guitar tracks). I did retrack the bass, as the first time down it really was too 'boomfy' (now officially a word!).

Back to the studio tonight! I have really been enjoying all of your creative input.

Pete
 
Okay folks - here is the latest version of the mix.

https://soundcloud.com/pete-lyall-1

Big changes:

Dropped the rhythm
Changed snare drum sound (new drum in SD2)
Took a little more low end out from the bass
Knocked the kick back a few tenths of a dB
Raised the solo
Applied a little bit (really) of Ozone5 to the master out

My take: I think the rhythm gets a little lost. Also, with 'consumer' EQ, I think it sounds bass heavy (not so with flat EQ, although it may be pushing the envelope).

As always, I love to hear what you think!

Pete
 
Drums are better , but yea the rythm is a bit lost now.
Bass is a bit to high.
All just IMO offc :)
But deff getting there.
 
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