OK, I hate to be a uber bitch/complain, but....

@<Paul - I'm not an FX-8 user. I come from the Axe Fx II and III.

I've read a number of your threads, and I haven't seen anyone say or imply you are an idiot.

What I have seen is a lot of complaining from you, mostly about lack of a complete manual.

While I think that your desire is not unreasonable, I don't think that you creating several threads to continually complain about this is doing anything useful.

There are many good people here offering you advice.

They are not Fractal and they don't create the manuals. Maybe take that for what it's worth?
 
Paul,
The reality of agility often leaves documentation in its wake.
‘Back in the day’ we could create comprehensive manuals that outlined the meaning of every dip switch and pot, along with all features and nuances, topped of with an ‘if you’re having problems’ section.
Nowadays, the features come too thick and fast, and maintaining documentation that keeps up is an onerous task. Look at apple, look at Microsoft - you won’t find an informative manual from those guys - more like a ‘you can do this and that’ guide without showing you how.
It’s a product of modern life and we’re not going back. My ave Fox 3 averages a firmware update each two weeks - no ones keeping up with that.
If you really want to know exactly what’s going on, jump onto algrenadene’s site, download all the firmware release notes, and read them.
Pauly.
 
<Paul said:
I guess the assumption I need to prove anything to you or submit evidence of something as if I am at fault somehow does not really register on my needs. If you do not know there are some things in various units different or not present in others then maybe you do not know as much as you presume to think you do. Like every unit, every editor is the same, right?? Oh I know I should list the differences, come on.
I ask, how hard can it be to have a complete detailed electronic version manual for a product and update it with each revision you do? Answer is, it could not more simple. "Look here, go look here, so and so has this and has done that", gessshhhh, and somehow you think I am at fault or the problem?? Here's a novel idea, hire someone to deal with the manual documentation and update it, hire two, oh it might bankrupt the company to do so???
Some of you chaps are just outstanding in your ability to help and inform newbies to this realm, others fancy since they can fly a plane someone who has not seen the controls before must be an idiot, but wait, they go to flight school and just might end up knowing more than you....
but oh god, there is no flight school...
Take Strymon for example they have tutorials how to use their gear and they constantly try and advance ideas to users. Granted Fractal is a whole other level of complexity but doesn't that increase the need?
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Lighten up, Francis. People are trying to help you.
 
<Paul -

Iaresee and Pauly are correct. We live in a world where documentation no longer predates the project, and it often lags. Secondarily, I would rather have the Fractal gang working on fixes/features. The manual is a good baseline. The real trick is to read the respective release notes, as they are a cornucopia of information.

On top of that, as you have noted some of the forum luminaries (Leon Todd, Chris, etc.) have done a great service to us by working with the info they have amassed and creating tutorial videos on Youtube.

In short, stop complaining and let the folks help you. You want a manual - people in hell want ice water. Wait for it (or don't). It'll be along, but not likely on your timetable though.

Let me be the first one to start: what specifically is causing you heartache? There are dozens/hundreds of folks here that would like to help. Just lose the 'tude.
 
Whoa, <Paul. Slow your roll... That's a party foul. Chris has "legend" status for a reason! He is one of the MOST HELPFUL and FAST TO RESPOND folks on the forum. Your dig on him is unwarranted. This community is a gem that is mostly hidden from the rest of the world. You are among the finest people on the planet here. Please be kind. And, Chris certainly doesn't need me to defend him, but I feel the need to speak up when such an OUTSTANDING member of the community is sassed.
 
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I’d love to have an instructional video series too, BUT, I want it on VHS tapes and I want it included in the darn box! Don’t expect me to get onto that new fangled world web web thing and watch a video on my computer screen. Just isn’t how I’m used to doing things.... Besides, whenever Ma gets a telephone call on the ol’ landline my modem disconnects.

😱
 
If you want to help, redo your documentation and correlate more detailed information so we do not have to do to multiple sources to try and piece together information. Or at best still tinker and twist knobs we are not sure what they do or were designed to do. I realize you cannot do a printed giant manual but how hard can it be to correlate a digital downloading format? We have to go here, then there, and then search for a video that maybe might explain something, but sadly they do not really know either. Real Fractal sponsored and in depth Tutorial videos would be amazing, sort like what Strymon does, granted they are not dealing with such immense sophistication, but, you guys go to such extremes with your technology why wouldn't you want to fully detail it? It's a bit like hoping someone can learn to fly a plane without flight school. Maybe, but I am not going to be a passenger.

Examine the available stuff on the Formant block, not enough there to even understand how to use it. If you guys do not realize your information is diverse and 3rd party "opinion" trial and error then you are not the engineering wonders I imagined.
I love the my FX8 and a big fan of Fractal in general, rather dismayed with the direction of the new products. The loss of the FX8 and AX8 were the two things that really got me interested in getting Fractal. Now it seems we have to pony up on the FM3 and the footswitcher or the AXIII rack w the footcontroller, is the larger floor switcher also being retired? I never really wanted to chase the amp modeling and IR dragon but I loved the FX8 now I have to get the expensive unit and ignore a lot of its features. I guess I will be using my FX8 until it dies which will hopefully be some time.
 
<Paul said:
If you want to help, redo your documentation and correlate more detailed information so we do not have to do to multiple sources to try and piece together information. Or at best still tinker and twist knobs we are not sure what they do or were designed to do. I realize you cannot do a printed giant manual but how hard can it be to correlate a digital downloading format? We have to go here, then there, and then search for a video that maybe might explain something, but sadly they do not really know either. Real Fractal sponsored and in depth Tutorial videos would be amazing, sort like what Strymon does, granted they are not dealing with such immense sophistication, but, you guys go to such extremes with your technology why wouldn't you want to fully detail it? It's a bit like hoping someone can learn to fly a plane without flight school. Maybe, but I am not going to be a passenger.

Examine the available stuff on the Formant block, not enough there to even understand how to use it. If you guys do not realize your information is diverse and 3rd party "opinion" trial and error then you are not the engineering wonders I imagined.
I love the my FX8 and a big fan of Fractal in general, rather dismayed with the direction of the new products. The loss of the FX8 and AX8 were the two things that really got me interested in getting Fractal. Now it seems we have to pony up on the FM3 and the footswitcher or the AXIII rack w the footcontroller, is the larger floor switcher also being retired? I never really wanted to chase the amp modeling and IR dragon but I loved the FX8 now I have to get the expensive unit and ignore a lot of its features. I guess I will be using my FX8 until it dies which will hopefully be some time.
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You write this as if we (the forum) are Fractal. We are not... We're product users, just like you. Nobody from the Fractal staff has commented on this thread.

And what's this "loss of the FX8" all about?
 
Every couple of years, a new user pops up on the forum who sincerely wants to learn every nuance and detail of a Fractal product by reading a book or watching videos. The truth is, you cant do that — any more than you can learn how to play guitar by reading books and watching videos. You have to learn a new concept, and then practice it, before you can make that knowledge your own. Then you move on to another concept.

Yes, it would be nice if the FX8 manual didn’t refer you to the Axe-Fx manual when you want detailed information about individual effects, but that information is readily available and well correlated.

When you buy an airplane, it’s not the airplane manufacturer’s responsibility to teach you how to be a pilot. Their job is to show you how to adjust the ailerons, not to explain why ailerons exist.
 
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Effectively, bitch all you want - the manual will be updated when the manual is updated. I'd hate to have seen how you would have reacted when the Axe FX II didn't have a decent Axe-Edit for over a year. As someone else said, we're not Fractal - we're just like you (with better attitudes).
 
I think the key word is "teach" aka Tutorial, aka "actual knowledge". Obviously, it is not registering, some of us might like to understand how something works or what it does other than turn knobs in this dumbed down age of no reading, no books and intellect is bashed.
Lucky no one gets to be a pilot without flight school and complete understanding of the science of flight. Hang on, I think I can teach you how to be a doctor, nope, you have to just get in there and try some things.
It would seem obvious to anyone at this point Fractal does not care, so I leave it at that, while the quasi experts assume they have a grasp on things. I am very sure the engineers who designed this and the software writers are fully aware of everything, they are obviously not responsible for documentation as no engineer would do such work. If you examine the various wiki or manual elements on blocks like the Formant and Synth they pretty much have nothing, yet the reference is "go look at that". Having been an Engineer myself it is known some may have extensive knowledge on their particular subject of focus but know nothing of another.
School teaches that documentation is paramount to everything from patents, design, function and creation. But then again maybe someone can become an engineer without school or the math study. If Fractal wishes their amazing tools and products to be clueless knob twisted by those trying to use them, I think that has been achieved.
Have a nice day. Again I thank everyone who has contributed to trying to help and passed on any knowledge gained or found. Now I am off to explain to my mom how an LFO oscillator works so she can make her own home synthesizer not having a clue.
 
Keep in mind too their isn’t so huge staff of engineers, developers, software guys, technical writers etc. Its pretty much Cliff doing it all, with M and Michael et al., adding some expertise in designing sounds, doing the editor software etc.

This isn’t HP or Motorola etc with 1000’s of employees and resoirces, it’s a handful of staff in a very small company who makes an awesome product.


As an aside, I find it kind of surprising that someone who sees everything as analytically and so black and white as the OP actually can enjoy a creative pursuit such as music where there are no rules to follow.....

Turn knobs til it sounds cool.... great rock n roll was created by guys who probably couldn’t pass an 8th grade proficiency exam, who have zero technical idea how their amp works etc, but they knew what sounded good.
 
Fractal is not responsible for teaching you common music/gear/effects usage. They aren’t here to reach how to use an amp (for the amp modeling products). Things like rate, depth, pan, drive, etc. are not Fractal specific things. they are general controls for how that effect exists. and they are documented.

My car dealer didn’t teach me how to drive. I had to know how first to get it off the lot.

again. give just ONE specific example of something you think is confusing or not documented so we can have a meeting of the minds. if you can't do that, please, stop.
 
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<Paul said:
Lucky no one gets to be a pilot without flight school and complete understanding of the science of flight. Hang on, I think I can teach you how to be a doctor, nope, you have to just get in there and try some things.
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You're exactly right. Even if you buy the most sophisticated piece of medical equipment with the world's most complete documentation, that documentation can't teach you how to be a doctor. You have to put in the years of training and practice.


<Paul said:
It would seem obvious to anyone at this point Fractal does not care
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It would seem obvious to even a casual observer that Fractal cares more about its customers than most companies.


<Paul said:
Having been an Engineer myself it is known some may have extensive knowledge on their particular subject of focus but know nothing of another.
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Being an engineer myself, it is known that one becomes an engineer by putting oneself through the grind of learning an engineering discipline.


<Paul said:
Now I am off to explain to my mom how an LFO oscillator works so she can make her own home synthesizer not having a clue.
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Just give her a manual and a video to watch, and she's good to go, right? ;)
 
<Paul said:
I think the key word is "teach" aka Tutorial, aka "actual knowledge". Obviously, it is not registering, some of us might like to understand how something works or what it does other than turn knobs in this dumbed down age of no reading, no books and intellect is bashed.
Lucky no one gets to be a pilot without flight school and complete understanding of the science of flight. Hang on, I think I can teach you how to be a doctor, nope, you have to just get in there and try some things.
It would seem obvious to anyone at this point Fractal does not care, so I leave it at that, while the quasi experts assume they have a grasp on things. I am very sure the engineers who designed this and the software writers are fully aware of everything, they are obviously not responsible for documentation as no engineer would do such work. If you examine the various wiki or manual elements on blocks like the Formant and Synth they pretty much have nothing, yet the reference is "go look at that". Having been an Engineer myself it is known some may have extensive knowledge on their particular subject of focus but know nothing of another.
School teaches that documentation is paramount to everything from patents, design, function and creation. But then again maybe someone can become an engineer without school or the math study. If Fractal wishes their amazing tools and products to be clueless knob twisted by those trying to use them, I think that has been achieved.
Have a nice day. Again I thank everyone who has contributed to trying to help and passed on any knowledge gained or found. Now I am off to explain to my mom how an LFO oscillator works so she can make her own home synthesizer not having a clue.
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Wow - we keep sending the message, and it's YOU who doesn't receive it, so let's try this in direct engineering fashion:
  1. Fractal is separate from the Forum. Wanna complain? Call Fractal - not other users.
  2. The manual's update timeline is not waiting for a cue from you. I'm sure they know it's deficient, outdated, etc. With other products, Firmware updates to the III, and general bug squashing, I'm sure Fractal has their hands full. That said, I know from history that the situation will be addressed. JUST NOT ON YOUR TIMELINE. Again - call Fractal. They're the only folks who have control here.
  3. Didn't appreciate the quasi-experts retort. Some of us have been using electric guitars and have owned real amps (many) for years. A lot of this is common knowledge for folks that have a long history, or possibly an interest in electronics. This may not be the case with the everyday user, but you elected to single out the pseudo experts. There's enough of us here that have our shit reasonably together that you could probably get a relatively informative response, if you chose to display some level of diplomacy, and asked questions as a 'normal' user might, rather than berating the staff, engineers, and power users.
  4. The Forum is a generally helpful place - people are happy to help you with what they have learned. Take advantage of that.
  5. To add, great tutorials ARE available, just not from Fractal. Chris and Leon Todd come to mind, but there are lots of others. Search YouTube for Axe FX and see what you come up with.
  6. Cooper Carter has a tutorial course that addresses the internals of the AF III. Of course, that's a paid tutorial ($120 I believe). If you really want to grok the Axe III, then pony up and take the course. (I have no affiliation, etc.).
  7. Try shit. The unit was meant to be tweaked. Just because you don't necessarily understand what a particular parameter does to your sound, um, TRY it and see what you think/like/hate. I certainly don't know precisely what all the controls do. I do have a general idea from being into tech (retired systems engineer) and guitar for the last *&^GJ years.
  8. Lastly, if you're the kind of personality that just likes being a 'negatron', do as Bob and Doug McKenzie suggest and 'take off'.
 
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