ODS #102 Patch and Clip

P

PacoCasanovasOld

Fractal Fanatic
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15087852/ODS102.syx
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15087852/ODS102.mp3

no volume control, no channel switching - various tones depending only on your string attack. Note the clarity and depth. Some adv. parameter tweaking was necessary to get mild breakup, the lows, mids and highs were they belong IMO. You can turn the basic tone controls to taste, but its always a good sign on an ODS concept, tone controls at noon and things going well. ;)

There is a global Amp Gain +2.0dB tweak neccesary to reach the same gain structure as on the amp. Gain structure of a non-HRM amp varies to the HRM versions due of lacking the special filter and resistor network between the clean preamp and the overdrive stages. Since most ODS variations were done with PAB activated and the normally factory pre-setted post gain tone stack, you can't tell if things were still in or out...personally I like both HRM and nonHRM concepts but all with the fully working clean preamp before the OD stages, aka pre-gain tonestack fully operable. Since this seems impossible in the box, I prefer the nonHRM models to keep the feel and amp dynamics right in my fingers, which makes this concept truly remarkable.

cheers
 
Sounds great. Thanks for sharing! With some minor tweaks is sounds much better then my ODS patches.
 
Very nice sound and playing! I'm trying to get that breakup with a bit more clean in it (if that makes any sense).

Love the licks you used with that recording btw.
 
PacoCasanovas said:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15087852/ODS102.syx
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15087852/ODS102.mp3

no volume control, no channel switching - various tones depending only on your string attack. Note the clarity and depth. Some adv. parameter tweaking was necessary to get mild breakup, the lows, mids and highs were they belong IMO. You can turn the basic tone controls to taste, but its always a good sign on an ODS concept, tone controls at noon and things going well. ;)

There is a global Amp Gain +2.0dB tweak neccesary to reach the same gain structure as on the amp. Gain structure of a non-HRM amp varies to the HRM versions due of lacking the special filter and resistor network between the clean preamp and the overdrive stages. Since most ODS variations were done with PAB activated and the normally factory pre-setted post gain tone stack, you can't tell if things were still in or out...personally I like both HRM and nonHRM concepts but all with the fully working clean preamp before the OD stages, aka pre-gain tonestack fully operable. Since this seems impossible in the box, I prefer the nonHRM models to keep the feel and amp dynamics right in my fingers, which makes this concept truly remarkable.

cheers
Click to expand...

Just curious, why use global amp gain? Input Trim does the same thing and can be set on a preset level.
 
javajunkie said:
Just curious, why use global amp gain? Input Trim does the same thing and can be set on a preset level.
Click to expand...

So when I load that preset on my axe, will then all my amps have +2.0 dB gain? if yes, how can avoid this and change it via input trim?
 
very nice patch. i really had to bump input trim to get similar gain though. sounds very good with the zen drive in front, btw
 
First, thanks for sharing the preset and the demo mp3 - sounds fantastic!

Did you use 17.03 for this? There was a recent thread where you mentioned that you were not able to get that control on the ODS in 17.03 (and the thread went to hell, but that's a side story). Were you able to make peace with 17.03? If so, what was the "missing ingredient"? I like to look inside other people's presets and learn from it, and I'd like to know what parameters you needed to work on to get this tone with 17.03.

Thanks again for sharing!

Oh, also: Java, how would you use input trim then to achieve the same this as +2.0 dB on global amp gain? Just set input trim to +2.0 dB, is it that simple?
 
Dpoirier said:
First, thanks for sharing the preset and the demo mp3 - sounds fantastic!

Did you use 17.03 for this? There was a recent thread where you mentioned that you were not able to get that control on the ODS in 17.03 (and the thread went to hell, but that's a side story). Were you able to make peace with 17.03? If so, what was the "missing ingredient"? I like to look inside other people's presets and learn from it, and I'd like to know what parameters you needed to work on to get this tone with 17.03.

Thanks again for sharing!

Oh, also: Java, how would you use input trim then to achieve the same this as +2.0 dB on global amp gain? Just set input trim to +2.0 dB, is it that simple?
Click to expand...

I use 17.03, correct - the amp model here is not Cliff's Dumble ODS 213, it's the Bludotone Ojai Lead, which is based on the ODS 102 amp, also known as ODS Ford. One of the missing "ingredients" (IMO) regarding gain is the lack of the filter/resistor network on an nonHRM design between the clean preamp and the overdrive stages, which I believe could be the reason why the gain structure on ODS 213 (which is a HRM amp by design) is different than normal nonHRM ODS amps have. If the Bludotone Ojai is based on the ODS 102 amp, this would be an non HRM amp by design. Personally I love both designs, but to get that unique feel right you need to have a fully operable clean preamp with fully operable tone controls into the OD stages. The HRM tonestack is not user adjustable on all ODS amps, unless you open the box. ;)

There are a few other things like low cut, high freq. bypass filter caps from plate to cathode in a ODS, also seen as parallel to the plate resistor (plate frequency on our axefxs), which I tweaked! Also lowering the transformer match a bit, which results in a bit more headroom, since the reactive load has not as much influence on the power amp resulting in less saturation.
I agree with Cliff regarding the improved negative feedback, which his former ODS designs were based on the 820/100Ohms NFB long tail pair phase splitter design, also well known by the classic AA764 fender blackface designs! The ODS 102 uses a 4k7/390Ohms combination with result in 0.076 feedback factor which gives approx 8dB feedback signal coming from the 4 ohms tap of secondary side of the OT. A typicall Marshall style 100k/4.7k design has only 5.7dB feedback (fender is above 13dB) . IMO I don't like too much influences form the power amp section here, cause the significant feel of an ODS concept is still preamp based, so i pulled this between a classic fender NFB and the dumble NFB.....pretty neat for me!

And as a little side kick to the ODS 213 models, I spend my ODS 102 patch a virtual set of EL34s, since the ODS 213 should be an EL34 based ODS by design.....at least regarding the auction on ebay!

Dumble Overdrive Special 100W with Skyliner EQ and EV 12L 4x12 Cab | eBay

I never understood, why all source including the master himself saying this would be a 6L6 based amp! Well, maybe it's just me......but I think this would be a great sidekick to put it into my patch as well!

Anyway, I'm now pretty happy to be closer to the tone I'm truly adore, even on fw 17.03 - so I can try out all the other great goodies coming from FAS.
My original thread (even if my post was a bit too sharp) was not ment to give Cliff or his team a hard time......but it's happend! :?:nightmare:

all the best (and a happy start into 2015)
Paco
 
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So, I was not able to import this using the latest firmware and Axe Edit. Any tips on getting this up and running? thanks.
 
favance said:
So, I was not able to import this using the latest firmware and Axe Edit. Any tips on getting this up and running? thanks.
Click to expand...

I used AxeEdit 3.1.4 to export the patch, I'll redo it with FractalBot - hope you can open it then! :)

PS: It might not working with 17.04 since this is still beta (I know there is a public beta thing going on - I used 17.03 on my Mk2 unit)
 
What guitar and pickups did you use on this clip?
Sounds pretty good in clip.

Preset is really low volume, however. Am using a Gibson LP with typical PAF type humbuckers.
The Master Vol on Amp is set to 3.15 and Level is at -12.0.
What function does FX Loop serve on this? Sorry if I am missing something obvious here.
 
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Thanks for sharing!! :)

PacoCasanovas said:
My original thread (even if my post was a bit too sharp) was not ment to give Cliff or his team a hard time...
Click to expand...
Neither was my post there... I've counted and I see myself giving leeway and understanding to Cliff at least 7 times...
If my post was meant to be an "asshole" post, I would not take care to do that.
I used smilies to make that even clearer. If Cliff interprets use of smilies by default as "desguising bad-meaning vibes" then I'd wish his New Year's resolution was to find a way to block all smillies for himself, instead of "Put more people on ignore"...

About the CAE aspect of it, I may want to start my own thread (or not) for remaining questions. AFAIK, it is not common knowledge that the model didn't have the Boogie 90/90 power amp anymore. I haven't been able to find indication of that anywhere so far (please correct me further in PM or if you see the thread), so that vibe was a bit harsh to me too... The rest were just a few frustrations and impressions to which I have the right and were therefore thruthful to me (and based upon actual archived quotes too).

Sorry for this small rebuttal to a now locked thread, but it seemed fitting (though my apologies to Paco for a two-time semi-thread derail... ;) )

Despite all that, also my Sincere Thanks & Best Wishes to Cliff, FAS & Forum Members :)
 
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