Now everyone has Cygnus, do you think you should still reduce cab block hi's from 20,000 to 6,000-8,500

Greg Ferguson said:
I wonder where this “majority” was found. I suspect the majority of users haven’t weighed in.

I don’t think Cygnus is darker in general, I think it’s better balanced and more realistic sounding. Some amps and cabs are dark in real life, just as some are bright, so I try to use ones that sound right to me. The Amp and Cab block entries in the wiki talk about this.

In addition, microphone choice can make a particular IR darker, brighter or have a stronger midrange so sometimes I blend a 121 and a 57 or 160 to get the overall sound.

And, I don’t necessarily use high or low cut. For clean and airy or presets with a lot of ambience I leave the sound wide open. For heavily distorted amps I reduce the range if it’s going to conflict with someone/something else.
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OK, I'll change "Majority" to "MANY". Is that better now?
 
Royalty said:
OK, I'll change "Majority" to "MANY". Is that better now?
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I really wouldn't even call it many. Some people have said it.

People and how they interact with a forum are funny. Some will:
  • mention a problem they're having.
  • say they're not having a problem.
  • tweak or work around it and won't say anything.
  • never comment, just read and nod their head in agreement with something.
  • not even log in.
Even a poll isn't necessarily accurate.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I really wouldn't even call it many. Some people have said it.

People and how they interact with a forum are funny. Some will:
  • mention a problem they're having.
  • say they're not having a problem.
  • tweak or work around it and won't say anything.
  • never comment, just read and nod their head in agreement with something.
  • not even log in.
Even a poll isn't necessarily accurate.
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You seem pretty worried about me saying what I said James . Relax, the pandemic is coming to an end. Have a cocktail. LOL!
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Low cut, yes. 18dB/oct (the classic Neve slope), anywhere between 100-200 Hz.

High cut, a touch, if at all. It still baffles me that people cut highs down to 6-8 k. 10-12 k is an extreme high cut, anything lower than that is just bonkers.
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Why would that be bonkers?

A v30 frequency response (from the Celestion website) is roughly 70-5,000hz. So the actual speaker highs nosedive after that point.

I'm sure there's some variation between speakers and sizes, but you're never going to get that actual high frequency from a guitar speaker.

It's fine if you like it, but it's certainly not the norm if you're using real cabs so people roll off those frequencies for a variety of reasons.
 
Becoming said:
Why would that be bonkers?

A v30 frequency response (from the Celestion website) is roughly 70-5,000hz. So the actual speaker highs nosedive after that point.

I'm sure there's some variation between speakers and sizes, but you're never going to get that actual high frequency from a guitar speaker.

It's fine if you like it, but it's certainly not the norm if you're using real cabs so people roll off those frequencies for a variety of reasons.
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Because there is plenty of information above that. The frequency plot of the speaker itself doesn't tell the whole story (which isn't even measured in a cab). All the air, presence, and a lot of the definition is above 5 k. Cutting all the out will most likely sound muddy, distant, and have trouble cutting in a dense mix.

Here is a 4x12 loaded with V30s, miced with an SM57. First totally unfiltered, then with a cut at 5 k. Look at all the information that's being omitted. It's the guitar equivalent of having somebody talk while covering their mouth with their hands.


 
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Maybe an engineer would chime in, but I'd assume that a lot of the high end would be from mic as opposed to the cab. In my mind that is what you're adjusting in an IR or a mic'd cab.

But if you like those frequencies then by all means keep them.
 
Becoming said:
Maybe an engineer would chime in, but I'd assume that a lot of the high end would be from mic as opposed to the cab. In my mind that is what you're adjusting in an IR or a mic'd cab.

But if you like those frequencies then by all means keep them.
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I am an sound engineer... The mic can't add what's not there. It's physics.

I do "get" why some people cut all the high mids and high end. It sounds closer to what they're used to, which is a guitar cab aimed at their feet or legs. But from a mixing point of view, cutting highs that extreme is not common practice, or common at all. This is something that has popped up due to modelers, and people trying to get the amp in the room tone from an IR (or something closer to it).

Many older mixing consoles that are highly praised, don't have high cuts, like the Neve stuff etc. Many moderately priced modern consoles don't have it either. And some of the best sounding albums have been made on consoles without high cut filters.
 
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The ones that are used to aiming to their knees with their cabs are also used to hearing less highs from their guitar.

The point is that the mic always picked up all the highs and the tech always got all the highs delivered to his console. Obviously techs can handle that.

Most techs took an SM57 back then and that was ok for them.

I have yet to find an IR taken with an SM57 that I love.... too thin, too treble, no body. They liked to work with that.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Because there is plenty of information above that. The frequency plot of the speaker itself doesn't tell the whole story (which isn't even measured in a cab). All the air, presence, and a lot of the definition is above 5 k. Cutting all the out will most likely sound muddy, distant, and have trouble cutting in a dense mix.

Here is a 4x12 loaded with V30s, miced with an SM57. First totally unfiltered, then with a cut at 5 k. Look at all the information that's being omitted. It's the guitar equivalent of having somebody talk while covering their mouth with their hands.


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I agree with this. From all the gigging and recording experiences I've had using Fractal gear and IRs for the better part of 10 years, too much hi and low pass filtering leaves you with an uninspiring sound and feel, dare I say "digital" sounding. There are so many variables that add up to the final sound. You can't overlook the system reproducing your sound. Studio monitors, FOH PA, monitor wedges, cabs, everything will yield different results in different environments.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Here is a 4x12 loaded with V30s, miced with an SM57. First totally unfiltered, then with a cut at 5 k. Look at all the information that's being omitted. It's the guitar equivalent of having somebody talk while covering their mouth with their hands.


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Many IRs are so fizzy and nasty at the high frequencies (can of bees) that you feel the need to cover their mouth with a pillow

Now I am limited to a few IRs that already have tamed highs, while not losing brightness, and don't require hi-cut
 
Piing said:
Many IRs are so fizzy and nasty at the high frequencies (can of bees) that you feel the need to cover their mouth with a pillow

Now I am limited to a few IRs that already have tamed highs, while not losing brightness, and don't require hi-cut
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The key is the mic placement. Get it as right as you can right at the source. Which is basically what you said ;)
 
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