Not to s*** on ANYONES parade but ...

RockerAlex

Inspired
As we all know recently there's been quite a few GREAT IR releases including Ownhammers High, Mid, and Low Gain Essentials, Cab Packs from Fractal and of course our very own Clark Kents release and DO NOT get me wrong, I own about 75% of these and they are awesome, I appreciate the hard work going into these ...

but ...

For some reason I couldn't seem to get the tone I was hearing in my head dialled in perfectly, there was always a little 5% of something missing no matter what IR I used from this extensive library I have now collected up ... Until I found Fremens V17 pack. He shows us the IR called "ASEM Recto V30 L2" in his FW17 patch making video and it couldn't be any nearer to the "perfect" IR sound I've been looking for ... and it's freely available. o_O

So, my question is, what is it about this IR that's been so different the others I've tried? Can anybody do a frequency spectrum graph on this or something?

As you can hear it fits perfectly into a mix, NO post EQ!
 

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  • 033-ASEM Recto V30 L2.syx
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greg from any sneap fourms made this ir and was my goto IR for the longest time. he designed the IR to be mix ready so its probably why it sounds 'perfect' to you. heres the original thread
FS: Custom Impulses - Ultimate Metal Forum

I see! Having a bit of back story does help a great deal ... explains why this sounds so great to me, pity I hadn't found it earlier.

I see talk of a "pack" for sale on that forum link, can anybody shed any light on this?
 
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Yeah, that ir is almost as classic as Guitarhacks "Thisone" and Catharsis "s-preshigh". For heavy tones and typical Sneapish 5150 tones, I always seem to prefer irs' that has been captured through guitar head power amps. "Neutral" ir's always seems to boxy/too much mid and not as saturated as my own 5150 head; it's almost as if the power amp sim in the Axe does not give enough scoop!
 
For my live tones, and I have many, none of CK's free ones did my tone any justice. Don't get me wrong. It's not that they sounded bad, they just don't fit with the mix of my band.

I bought one cab pack earlier this summer and cab lab and have pretty much every free IR on the Internet and I always end up going back to my own IRs I shot with cheap flat RTA reference condenser mic.

I never have to do any post EQ with my own IRs.

What I find interesting is how people keep saying they have the perfect IR and then next week they goto a different one and say the same thing.

I think too many are just more interested in the chase.
 
As we all know recently there's been quite a few GREAT IR releases including Ownhammers High, Mid, and Low Gain Essentials, Cab Packs from Fractal and of course our very own Clark Kents release and DO NOT get me wrong, I own about 75% of these and they are awesome, I appreciate the hard work going into these ...

but ...

For some reason I couldn't seem to get the tone I was hearing in my head dialled in perfectly, there was always a little 5% of something missing no matter what IR I used from this extensive library I have now collected up ... Until I found Fremens V17 pack. He shows us the IR called "ASEM Recto V30 L2" in his FW17 patch making video and it couldn't be any nearer to the "perfect" IR sound I've been looking for ... and it's freely available. o_O

So, my question is, what is it about this IR that's been so different the others I've tried? Can anybody do a frequency spectrum graph on this or something?

As you can hear it fits perfectly into a mix, NO post EQ!


Hey it's definitely no s*** on any parade of mine. You should use what ever works for you. That clip you posted doesn't sound bad at all.

What I do with my IRs is create a clean and raw representation of what kind of tone you would get if you bought a real amp and cab and miked that cab as good as possible. F.ex. this "ASEM Recto V30 L2" was clearly shot with a tube amp. That is not a clean nor raw representation of the cab sound but highly colored by the power amp. It is including a part of modeling that is already done within the Axe-Fx. So basically what you hear when using this IR is the power amp modeling from the amp block and also the power amp color in the IR. So... basically if you want to use the power amp color of that IR I suggest you go to the "speaker" page in the amp block and turn the resonances to 0. This way you get rid of that overly scooped sound. Running two sets of power amp modeling is "wrong" but there's no right or wrong. Power amp modeling scoops the low mids (400hz-500hz) quite a lot and definitely makes your tone cut.. basically because it's taking away the body of your sound. However I don't think the IR is the only solution for you. What kind of amp settings are you using? F.ex. I use noon settings with my IRs (like most amps were designed to be used) for most of my clips and still get a cutting tone with body to fill the mix. F.ex. this one:



I would personally love to take a huge dump on all these people who pre EQ IRs so that they're "mix ready". There is no such thing as pre-eq for every mix because every mix is different. That's definitely a personal preference EQ setting and IMO wrong (even though there's no right or wrong). The way I shoot IRs (and Kevin from OwnHammer) always has a nice safety net because we "keep it real" with raw clean IRs. The way IRs are meant to be used with the Axe-Fx. Just remember that how things are meant to be may not always be the best thing for you. F.ex. guitar amps weren't meant to be distorted originally.
 
Yeah, that ir is almost as classic as Guitarhacks "Thisone" and Catharsis "s-preshigh". For heavy tones and typical Sneapish 5150 tones, I always seem to prefer irs' that has been captured through guitar head power amps. "Neutral" ir's always seems to boxy/too much mid and not as saturated as my own 5150 head; it's almost as if the power amp sim in the Axe does not give enough scoop!

Are the IRs being sold in the cab packs "neutral" then? The sound you describe seems to be exactly the sound I am not liking ...

I use that IR in conjunction with some of Clarks stuff from Cab Pack 7.

I haven't actually tried this yet ... with such an extensive IR library, mixing seems daunting.

For my live tones, and I have many, none of CK's free ones did my tone any justice. Don't get me wrong. It's not that they sounded bad, they just don't fit with the mix of my band.

I bought one cab pack earlier this summer and cab lab and have pretty much every free IR on the Internet and I always end up going back to my own IRs I shot with cheap flat RTA reference condenser mic.

I never have to do any post EQ with my own IRs.

What I find interesting is how people keep saying they have the perfect IR and then next week they goto a different one and say the same thing.

I think too many are just more interested in the chase.

To be honest I can't see me changing this one unless I stumble across on some ungodly mix fooling around! This IR very much is the CLOSEST I've ever been to my "perfect" tone with next to no tweaking.

Hey it's definitely no s*** on any parade of mine. You should use what ever works for you. That clip you posted doesn't sound bad at all.

What I do with my IRs is create a clean and raw representation of what kind of tone you would get if you bought a real amp and cab and miked that cab as good as possible. F.ex. this "ASEM Recto V30 L2" was clearly shot with a tube amp. That is not a clean nor raw representation of the cab sound but highly colored by the power amp. It is including a part of modeling that is already done within the Axe-Fx. So basically what you hear when using this IR is the power amp modeling from the amp block and also the power amp color in the IR. So... basically if you want to use the power amp color of that IR I suggest you go to the "speaker" page in the amp block and turn the resonances to 0. This way you get rid of that overly scooped sound. Running two sets of power amp modeling is "wrong" but there's no right or wrong. Power amp modeling scoops the low mids (400hz-500hz) quite a lot and definitely makes your tone cut.. basically because it's taking away the body of your sound. However I don't think the IR is the only solution for you. What kind of amp settings are you using? F.ex. I use noon settings with my IRs (like most amps were designed to be used) for most of my clips and still get a cutting tone with body to fill the mix. F.ex. this one:



I would personally love to take a huge dump on all these people who pre EQ IRs so that they're "mix ready". There is no such thing as pre-eq for every mix because every mix is different. That's definitely a personal preference EQ setting and IMO wrong (even though there's no right or wrong). The way I shoot IRs (and Kevin from OwnHammer) always has a nice safety net because we "keep it real" with raw clean IRs. The way IRs are meant to be used with the Axe-Fx. Just remember that how things are meant to be may not always be the best thing for you. F.ex. guitar amps weren't meant to be distorted originally.


Glad to know you've not taken any offence Clark! What I've learned today is that I DO like the tube amp colouration, then ... and thanks for the tip! I'll see how that sounds next time I'm tweaking.

Great clip of course, but is there any post processing here? You're obviously waaay ahead of me when it comes to recording/mixing/mastering guitars! My clip was completely dry post processing wise, it's Drive (Tube Drive 3 Knob) -> Amp (Recto 2 Red Modern) -> Cab (ASEM Recto V30 L2, Premamp Modern Drive 2 Sat 2.)

If I'm not mistaken, it seems the new Cab Lab Live will have options to add and remove colouration and much, much more, so I'm looking forward to that. :)
 
I would personally love to take a huge dump on all these people who pre EQ IRs so that they're "mix ready". There is no such thing as pre-eq for every mix because every mix is different. That's definitely a personal preference EQ setting and IMO wrong (even though there's no right or wrong). The way I shoot IRs (and Kevin from OwnHammer) always has a nice safety net because we "keep it real" with raw clean IRs. The way IRs are meant to be used with the Axe-Fx. Just remember that how things are meant to be may not always be the best thing for you. F.ex. guitar amps weren't meant to be distorted originally.

The whole dump thing is not something I'm into... but I don't judge :)

I agree about the pre-eq. Having tons of IR's that are heavily EQ'ed just means more audition time to find the one that works.

I also prefer fewer IR's and balanced.

The Fractal has so many options for EQ, the pre EQ is not so necessary.
 
RockerAlex, I'm not sure if you knew but Cab Pack 7 was shot with a tube amp by removing the tube amp color with the "TEH" technique. :) Same real life amp as the USA LEAD sims. :)
 
RockerAlex, I'm not sure if you knew but Cab Pack 7 was shot with a tube amp by removing the tube amp color with the "TEH" technique. :) Same real life amp as the USA LEAD sims. :)

Oh cool, I did not know. It seems the power amp colouration to my ears ... and would be difficult to dial back in manually I imagine?
 
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Oh cool, I did not know. It seems the power amp colouration to my ears ... and would be difficult to dial back in manually I imagine?

Well I should have that frequency curve somewhere...... among thousands of IR files. :D It's similar to what the speaker page does in the amp sim.
 
RockerAlex, clean your PM folder, I can't reply to the PM you sent me

Btw I got closer to my ideal IR by mixing ASEM Recto with Ownhammer, Redwirez or FAS pack 7 IRs. I use ASEM at full volume and add a R121 (or Redwirez M160) at somewhere between -4 and 12 to add some low mids. Works perfectly for me. I did the same when I was using GuitarHack ThisOne instead of ASEM
 
So, my question is, what is it about this IR that's been so different the others I've tried? Can anybody do a frequency spectrum graph on this or something?

As you can hear it fits perfectly into a mix, NO post EQ!


To me, your clip sounds very good. Heres the magnitude:

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Looks to me extremely mid-scooped because of amplified with tube power amp when shooting the IR. Maybe it is additionally mid-scooped by EQ, because the mid scoop is extraordinary, IMO - don`t know. Also the low-end looks unnaturally, means: EQed.

Nevertheless: If it sounds good, it works. If it works, it is good.


If I'm not mistaken, it seems the new Cab Lab Live will have options to add and remove colouration and much, much more, so I'm looking forward to that.
icon_e_smile.gif

It can subtract power amps coloration, if the DI capture of the amp only is available for it`s dedicated speaker miced IR.
 
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i don't know much about making IRs. at all, honestly.

but this ir scoops mids making it sit better in a mix without having to scoop it yourself?

is that kinda like a guitar tuned to C major? works great for playing in C major. in B, not so much.

no?
 
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