• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Not much love for bass regarding amps and effects?

selta

Power User
Well, it appears to float their boat. Nothing wrong with that. But I fully understand your frustration.
I agree, it works for them but.... (rest of the response below)
Why is that funny?
Thanks
Pauly
It's funny because:
1) Calling it a "powerhouse for bass". Sure, it has a lot that can be done, but powerhouse? I dunno... it's certainly an unrivaled powerhouse for guitar, and super plug and play. To get anything beyond a pretty straightforward bass tone though, not sure I'd call it a "powerhouse". But that's dicing words.
2) "Classic bass amps" - which ones? There's what, 3 bass amps in there that bassists actually care about and use? A lot of the 1) classic 2) popular and/or 3) modern bass amps are no-show.
3) Fractal's bass player support is dubious at best. Sure, they will do everything they can for their artists, but when it comes to adding an amp, cab, or effect, fo'get'abou'it. How many years did it take to get the B7K?

It's just funny because they post as if it's as good for bass as it is for guitar. It's not.

Edit to add: I think the fact that this topic is brought up by various bass players, and around and around the discussion goes, speaks a lot to it as well.
 
Last edited:

selta

Power User
The 3 is way better for bass than the 2. You should try it before judging.
Thanks
Pauly
How so? What has been done specifically for bass in the 3? I'm honestly curious and want to be convinced that is true. There's been at least a couple new guitar amps added to the 3, but, I haven't seen a single thing in the patch notes related to bass. Does it track low B now actually? F#? Does the B7K come closer to the real life version? Were the factory cabs finally made ultra-res (kind of a moot point for me since I own pretty much all of Bonkers, 3Sigma, and ML Lab's bass cabs, but still)?
 

pauly

Fractal Fanatic
It's way better. So much better in fact that I sold my b7k and can now use the axe fx for bass. I couldn't with the 2 - hard to explain why, it's just betterer.
Pauly

I never had a problem tuning low b with the 2
There's not a w hole bunch of new bass amps or effects so you may still be disappointed.
 

selta

Power User
I never had a problem tuning low b with the 2
Sorry, I should've been a touch more clear -- I don't mean the tuner (it does track down to F# fine), I mean when using the pitch block. Anything under E is flaky at best, and under C (B string, 2nd fret) does not track on any of my basses at all.
 
Whether the Axe-FX works well for you on bass is very situational. It is definitely not a comprehensive unit for bass. I own the Axe III. Since my preferred clean tone has no amp or cabinet modelling, I can get something perfectly acceptable very quickly. My main drive tone was a B7k anyway so its inclusion worked out great. My only consternation is to not be able to dial in a great compressor (I use a Cali76 TX-L after the AxeIII right now to compensate). The synth block also doesn't track great on lower strings, but what pedal does either? To be a truly great bass unit it would need.

More Compressors
More Preamps, Amps, and Cabs
More Bass Drives

All thankfully easily addable with firmware updates. Here's hoping!
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Edit to add: I think the fact that this topic is brought up by various bass players, and around and around the discussion goes, speaks a lot to it as well.

Yup. As you can see from following the various "bass stuff request" threads, it's a rare occurrence to see anyone employed by Fractal chime in with support of any kind...especially MORAL support. It sorta sux when you get the feeling FAS treats these requests as though they're the plague or something. "Here's your one significant bass update every 5 years...now leave us alone!"
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Bass has fewer strings, and bass players typically only play one note at a time, thus needs less “love” as a result.

;p


Realistically, I’ve always used things like studio style compressors for bass, so I don’t think the effects is really that lacking as most of the effects work great with any instrument, including bass
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Maybe take a look at this recent post from Cliff... And some of the preceding ones in that thread:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-iii-in-music-radar.141923/#post-1686914

Maybe explains why there's not much response - at least for new bass amps.

Sure, perhaps it does explain things a little, but the more I read the posts on that thread, the more it supports many of the things bassists have been complaining about: dismissiveness, narrow focus, "...if only you used your ears...", etc. Same old same old. The hole being dug just keeps getting deeper. =(
 

selta

Power User
Sure, perhaps it does explain things a little, but the more I read the posts on that thread, the more it supports many of the things bassists have been complaining about: dismissiveness, narrow focus, "...if only you used your ears...", etc. Same old same old. The hole being dug just keeps getting deeper. =(
Yup. Basically just further confirms that bassists should grovel at Fractal's feet and just be happy with the crumbs off the table that we have gotten. Oh well. At least it saves me a bunch of money from wanting an Axe-Fx III, and with my annual Bass Convention this coming weekend, I can showcase the posts in that other thread to quite a lot of potential customers so they know what they might be signing up for.
 

selta

Power User
Apparently all you need is a DI and a compressor for everything bass related ever. No great bass tone has had an amp, cab, or effect pedal added in, ever. If you can't do it with DI and a compressor, you obviously don't know what you're doing. No go away while we add yet another Friedman amp to this for a 0.001% incremental change.
 

ChristThePhone

Fractal Fanatic
Since FAS is paying the bill for this forum I wouldn't be too surprised if this thread was locked down.

Being mainly a guitar player I do play bass every once in a while when trying to record some stuff. For me it would be sufficient to see more bass presets that I could base my work on but this is just my tiny little point of view. I understand that a real bass player has different demands. But to put things into perspective : there are a gazillion more guitar amps that have been requested in the past and still we get yet another plexi spin-off. It's not only bass players feeling frustration but since all updates are free I think we all need to be careful about our own expectations with respect to new amp models / features.
 

pauly

Fractal Fanatic
Hi,
I think christthepone hit the nail on the head when he mentioned expectation.
Some of the posts above reek of entitlement. -as if we deserve and are entitled to what we demand. Let's be frank - it's fractals device and they should do what they think is best for it.

As a bass player I also have wants but when people start this entitled bullshit it's disappointing.

I'm thankful the three is so much better for bass than the 2. I'm also amazed at the constant free updates and stellar attention and service we get from fractal. Name another company selling products globally that gives this level of support. If I get more bass amps I'll be stoked but I don't feel I'm entitled to them.
Thanks
Pauly
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Apparently all you need is a DI and a compressor for everything bass related ever. No great bass tone has had an amp, cab, or effect pedal added in, ever. If you can't do it with DI and a compressor, you obviously don't know what you're doing. No go away while we add yet another Friedman amp to this for a 0.001% incremental change.

I had prepared a rather long response on that other thread, but I've not decided whether or not to post it. Pretty much the same talking points that bassists have been making since I got my AxeFx Ultra 10 years ago. Nothing has changed or evolved in the way most view bass guitar here on this forum. Agreed, it just makes it that much more difficult to want to contribute here.

It's just so ironic that the same people who champion the idea of keeping your ears and mind open are the ones who essentially deny that there's any reason to want to have signature bass amp tones via expanded bass amp models and cabinet IRs, and that because "all the big shots do it this way", that's all that SHOULD matter to bassists. I do wonder if they have the ability to step back and recognize how condescending and narrow that is.

I feel like this is Orwell's 1984. If the forum gurus here steadfastly keep pounding the drum, insisting on one version of the "truth" about bass tone and bass amps, then bassists who may feel otherwise (based on experience) will somehow be compelled to fall in line...or else suffer the wrath of being a non-conformist. You will conform. You MUST conform. How un-rock-and-roll. =(

Since FAS is paying the bill for this forum I wouldn't be too surprised if this thread was locked down.

Yes, that would suck and it certainly is possible....but it wouldn't be the first time. Beyond venting frustration at the blind spot the forum has regarding bass stuff, nobody here is really doing anything but stating things as they see it. Mind you, nobody from FAS will make it "official", that the reason they don't do more support for bassists is due to the low demand and (in their eyes) the lack or real world need for anything more, thus it's a very, very low priority for them. I could live with that if they actually came clean and said, "Sorry bassists, if you like what we offer that's great, but don't go expecting us to develop our products any further specifically for you. You'll be disappointed."
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Hi,
I think christthepone hit the nail on the head when he mentioned expectation.
Some of the posts above reek of entitlement. -as if we deserve and are entitled to what we demand. Let's be frank - it's fractals device and they should do what they think is best for it.

As a bass player I also have wants but when people start this entitled bullshit it's disappointing.

I'm thankful the three is so much better for bass than the 2. I'm also amazed at the constant free updates and stellar attention and service we get from fractal. Name another company selling products globally that gives this level of support. If I get more bass amps I'll be stoked but I don't feel I'm entitled to them.
Thanks
Pauly

Better in what respect? That's great to hear...but...is there an SWR model in there now, and new UltraRes bass cabs IRs?

I bought my Ultra 10 years ago. One of the main reasons was because it had an SVT model and some bass cabinet IRs. At that time, given the reputation FAS had for customer support and expanded capability with regular additions via firmware updates, I EXPECTED Fractal to include the bass realm. And they did...to a very small extent. Hell, I would have been happy if they just NAILED the SVT amp and cab models. IMHO, they didn't [edit] quite get it real close, especially 8x10 IRs. [edit]

Eventually, we got bass amp & cab updates that unfortunately didn't include companion cabinet IRs for the Mesa 400 or the Orange bass amp models. Cool that we got consideration, but I don't recall anyone clamoring for the Mesa 400 or Orange, but that's all good.

Since then, (2013?), there has been exactly ONE addition for bassists (Darkglass). You can call it entitlement if you want. IMHO, what it was for me was that I had a reasonable expectation (bass support) that was not met, which was followed by disappointment, and once this disappointment was expressed, utter frustration at the response of the forum. Glaring and obvious.

It's OK, though, because I've moved on. Fractal is great gear. GREAT GEAR! They just need to make it clear that they really don't care much about bassists. As a guitar amp modeler and effects processor it is absolutely the best. Hands down. All I wanted to see over a 10 year period was some refinement and support for the existing SVT amp & cab models, and some expansion to include perhaps a handful of STAPLE amps and cabs that are widely used by bassists. I used to preach Fractal Audio to bassists, but it got awfully hard to continue to push the amp & cab modeling aspects of the gear due to the lack of attention. I've always been 100% behind all other aspects of the FAS gear.

FWIW.
 
Last edited:

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Cliff is certainly far smarter, more level headed, and a much better businessman than me, so I doubt he’d follow suit, but man, after threads like this, if it was my company I’d send a memo stating “there will be no bass development as a matter of principle”.

Same as the Klon mess, after all that BS I’d just flat out to refuse to ever do it, no matter what.

People don’t have to like it, people can go elsewhere, it can cost sales etc, but I simply would not do it because you simply can’t give into the vocal minority, imo. That just reinforces a sense of entitlement and thinking that throwing a fuss results in getting rewarded.

Again, on a personal level I do understand people’s frustrations, but I also just would not want to deal with the BS. Add a bass amp, people will say “why only one?” Or complain it’s the amp they didn’t want.... just can’t win.

I’d just wash my hands of it, say take it as it is, or don’t take it at all, and go spend my time adding guitar amp #256, or working on the flanger effect block etc
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Same as the Klon mess, after all that BS I’d just flat out to refuse to ever do it, no matter what.

Well, the Klon thing is a bit different. There are a LOT of existing flavors of dirt/drive. Currently 37 according to Yek's Wiki. How would you like it if you had 3 or 5 drives to choose from? This is where the bass amp models sit right now. There are 5: 1 version of an SVT, 2 versions of the Mesa 400, 1 FAS original, 1 Orange.

People don’t have to like it, people can go elsewhere, it can cost sales etc, but I simply would not do it because you simply can’t give into the vocal minority, imo. That just reinforces a sense of entitlement and thinking that throwing a fuss results in getting rewarded.

Yup, exactly that. Gone elsewhere.

Trust me, I'm well aware that I'm being a whining beehotch about all of this, but this discussion just didn't start recently out of thin air. For me it goes way, way back. The origins are nothing more than asking a couple of simple questions, like: "how about a SansAmp BDDI drive/amp model?", and "with all of the dozens (now hundreds) of guitar amp models and cab IRs, how about some staple bass amps and cab IRs (GK, Acoustic, etc.)?". These rather innocuous questions were met then - and continue today - to be met with nothing but veiled condescension, generally. Bass is near and dear to my heart, so I tend to get a little flustered and disheartened when I read the responses on this forum from players who are not first and foremost bassists that perform live.

Honestly, it ultimately doesn't matter to me anymore what FAS chooses to do WRT bassists. If they ever decide to indulge us a bit more with some key pieces, then I'd likely come back to using FAS gear. I'd LOVE to have 5 different sounding bass rigs in a small box, provided that they actually did sound like the amps & cabs they're modeled after. But it hardly matters if FAS doesn't develop more bass stuff at this point, since it seems apparent there's everything a bassist could ever want or need in the box. I beg to differ. There's probably 95% of what a bassist could want or need in all departments other than selection of bass amps and cabs (which cover about 20% or less for what bassists would like to have in the box).

No worries. It's all good. I only chime in every few months or so these days. As you were.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
Chiming in here as well, I hope you don't mind. I would just like to remind everyone saying "they don't care about us bass players". That there are people at Fractal who are bass players. I think even Matt is a bass player... obviously a great guitarist as well. Point being that it's not about "not caring about bass players". I gave 8 really good single mic IR's for bass for free in the Axe-Fx III but haven't heard a peep from bass players. Would it be fair for me to now say that "bass players don't care"? :D Joking aside... Releasing and developing a modeler like the Axe-Fx III is extremely hard. That's why there's only one company on the planet that has succeeded/attempted. It's not like Fractal staff is sitting on their butts trying to think about new guitar amp sims and ignoring bass players. There haven't been many new amp sims for guitars either. Like I said in that other thread, we don't have working preset-cab bundles yet for Axe-Fx III. That should tell you that there are many basic functional things that need to be done first. I wouldn't mind having 50 bass amp sims but there are multiple way more important things even for bass players that need to be done if you ask me.
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks for engaging. Nobody is asking for 50 of bass anything, just a handful of amps & cabinets, regularly sprinkled in over the last number of years. All good. I'm happy to let this dead horse lay beaten. For whatever the reason - no matter what it is - the history and facts remain as they are, and everyone will just have to live with it, like it or not. =)
 
Top Bottom