Not completly happy with 9.03

[PacoCasanovasOld]

He put the code in, and im sure he double checked it many times over. IF you're telling him hes wrong you are either calling him a liar, or a retard.

Nobody tells him he's wrong....I guess you missed the point here!
So would you call us or me a retard or a liar being not able to dial in the exact same sound with 9.xx I had in 7.04? Take a deep breath before answer....

You might know that every guitar amp is not just based on parameters that can de- or increased to get the same result at the end. It's how parameters wil, react to each other and based on many non-linear operations. So I'm not suprised that I'm unable to get my 7.04-Pacolation tone back with 9.xx and that's why I also said a multiple times here: "it's all good!" I simply can understand the point of member "bmi" here...

"I want to drive the 66 GTO, but I want it to handle like a Porsche and have safety like a late model Volvo."

Well, that's why I'm using an Axe-Fx instead of a truckload of real amps in my living room. I understand your point here, but I guess neither steff or bmi asked for having both in once (I did but in a very polite and respectful way), they just wonder why their sound changed that much and were unable to turn it back to what they liked before. So....compared to your story above, it's like you bring your 66 GTO to your service-supplier for improvment on your car and get back a Porsche which is so safety to handle like the late model Volvo :lol: Of corse, your service supplier on the axe-side did the modification for free, and you're able to get back to your old 66 GTO. No problems so far, IF you won't call it an improvment then :mrgreen:

@ bmi & steff: What "we" need is a 2nd Axe-Fx in our rig. I saving up some money right now, maybe I'm ready next year or so..... :lol:

It makes huge difference IMO, it says a lot about our manners etc etc.

So speaking to me or to bmi or steff says nothing about manners then, huh? Glad that Scott also did his statements on it above.....

I have used different gear through years but I never actually had a chance to speak
with the man himself who created that gear, talking about Mesa, Peavey, Engl, T.C., Rocktron, Marshall etc.

I used to talk to some of them over the last years, they are nice and normal guys like you, Cliff, Tom and many others. Also did some talkings to the guys at R&D a couple of times (talking about improvments, technical problems etc.). Well it's a huge part of my daytime job (which doesn't belong in here btw).

@ Tom (TK): Many thanks for your clarification regarding Atomic and Fractal Audio. I appreciate that!


@ all: Have a good day, greetings

Paco

 

[mba]

I made a patch the other day. Whoa did it suck! I DELETED it and started over.......


( I didnt create a thread about it either)

This comment is stupid you should read more attentivly this thread.
I have posted two samples made with the same preset. The first one with 9.00 sounds great. With 9.03 it rings strangely. I could expect to get a different result and why not bad...but this ringing sound is not normal and i have heard it before into a cab many times so...did you understand that it's not a bad sounding patch there but a bad phenomenom that i have never heard before?

 

[Beefcake]

The first one with 9.00 sounds great. With 9.03 it rings strangely.

But now you know how to eliminate that difference and get the great sound, or did I misunderstand?

Are you saying the upgrades in 9.03 should be reversed?

I'm honestly trying to understand your point, but haven't yet.

 

[Muris_Varajic]

So speaking to me or to bmi or steff says nothing about manners then, huh? Glad that Scott also did his statements on it above.....

Nope, I was pretty much talking in general, no need to take it personal once again...

 

[Scott Peterson]

This experience doesn't change my mind about one thing. I dislike the default values of 9.03 and sometimes with these i can hear something ringing in the back.(with or without tube poweramp)

So please, respectfully, tell us what you actually want?

I read your posts (lots of them) but you seem to want the default values to suit your taste. You, judging from your posts, don't like to change values to suit your taste. I read this entire thread (and many more in the past) as passive/aggressive anger because you cannot simply let default values be a starting point and adjust them to your taste. From your posts, honestly, it reads to me as if you want them to please your taste. That's the 'world revolves around ME' entitlement I've been referring to. You seem angry that you need to tweak to find your tones past the default values.

If you hear a 'ring' then dial it out. Drop a PEQ in. Redo a custom IR mix to filter it out. Change some values and make it happen. The toolbox is in front of you.

For all the volume of your posts, it seems a very easy solution to me.

Correct me if I am wrong. But please explain it simply and without emotion.

Respectfully, Scott

 

[Scott Peterson]

So speaking to me or to bmi or steff says nothing about manners then, huh? Glad that Scott also did his statements on it above.....

@ all: Have a good day, greetings

Paco

This comment is stupid you should read more attentivly this thread.

This is why folks react to bmi. After Paco's post I might note.

It's ridiculous. If you want others to respect your opinion, then respect their opinion FIRST. It's the golden rule.

And it's sadly missed constantly, then fingers pointed and flame war ignited.

 

[marvinx]

He put the code in, and im sure he double checked it many times over. IF you're telling him hes wrong you are either calling him a liar, or a retard.

Nobody tells him he's wrong....I guess you missed the point here!
So would you call us or me a retard or a liar being not able to dial in the exact same sound with 9.xx I had in 7.04? Take a deep breath before answer....

You might know that every guitar amp is not just based on parameters that can de- or increased to get the same result at the end. It's how parameters wil, react to each other and based on many non-linear operations. So I'm not suprised that I'm unable to get my 7.04-Pacolation tone back with 9.xx and that's why I also said a multiple times here: "it's all good!" I simply can understand the point of member "bmi" here...

[quote="Scott Peterson":21133tdi]"I want to drive the 66 GTO, but I want it to handle like a Porsche and have safety like a late model Volvo."

Well, that's why I'm using an Axe-Fx instead of a truckload of real amps in my living room. I understand your point here, but I guess neither steff or bmi asked for having both in once (I did but in a very polite and respectful way), they just wonder why their sound changed that much and were unable to turn it back to what they liked before. So....compared to your story above, it's like you bring your 66 GTO to your service-supplier for improvment on your car and get back a Porsche which is so safety to handle like the late model Volvo :lol: Of corse, your service supplier on the axe-side did the modification for free, and you're able to get back to your old 66 GTO. No problems so far, IF you won't call it an improvment then :mrgreen:

@ bmi & steff: What "we" need is a 2nd Axe-Fx in our rig. I saving up some money right now, maybe I'm ready next year or so..... :lol:

It makes huge difference IMO, it says a lot about our manners etc etc.

So speaking to me or to bmi or steff says nothing about manners then, huh? Glad that Scott also did his statements on it above.....

I have used different gear through years but I never actually had a chance to speak
with the man himself who created that gear, talking about Mesa, Peavey, Engl, T.C., Rocktron, Marshall etc.

I used to talk to some of them over the last years, they are nice and normal guys like you, Cliff, Tom and many others. Also did some talkings to the guys at R&D a couple of times (talking about improvments, technical problems etc.). Well it's a huge part of my daytime job (which doesn't belong in here btw).

@ Tom (TK): Many thanks for your clarification regarding Atomic and Fractal Audio. I appreciate that!


@ all: Have a good day, greetings

Paco[/quote:21133tdi]


You misunderstood me Paco, I am saying that if someone tells cliff he is incorrect about the changes he made, THAT PERSON is calling CLIFF a liar or retard because he (cliff) has surely checked his code many times over. I am NOT calling you a retard.

Please keep in mind also that the changes i am referring to are from 9.0 to 9.3 and no other (i should have been clearer). I am NOT referring to the differences between 7.04 and 9.xx
~mx~

 

[joegold]

I have a problem though, when Cliff essentially tells you, "all i did was change variable x", and no one seems to listen to or believe him. What he is saying is that the code, is EXACTLY the same. This isnt an amp, this isnt physcial gear. There are no microscopic physical changes at work here, only numbers.

1+1 will always = 2 ,... period.

I have no doubt that the 2 recordings that Cliff posted should have sounded identical because what you say above is surely true.
The only problem is that the recordings he actually posted do not sound *identical*. They are very close though.
So it's likely that something else besides the code or the way the parameters were set that is causing this slight difference.
But IMO, anyone who can't hear the difference in those recordings has no ears.
[/quote]

 

[joegold]

9.03 sounds brighter than 9.00 with the default values and to me it sounds bad.

That's all I've been saying about this "problem".
Change the default value for the HF Resonance parameter on some of the Amp Types and these types of 9.03 discussions will go away.
IMO.

 

[Deltones]

I made a patch the other day. Whoa did it suck! I DELETED it and started over.......

Of all the things said in this thread, this is the wisest by far.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Locked down for a 24 hour chill out period.

If you want this reopened after that period, please PM me after the 24 hours and I'll reopen it assuming folks can control the name calling and back-and-forth.

 

[javajunkie]

9.03 sounds brighter than 9.00 with the default values and to me it sounds bad.

That's all I've been saying about this "problem".
Change the default value for the HF Resonance parameter on some of the Amp Types and these types of 9.03 discussions will go away.
IMO.

Right, that is why Cliff put the option there to begin with. He has explained this many, many, many times. He (and others)( has explained this to BMI many, many times. He has chosen not to listen until now. This is why many have got so frustrated with this post. That gives no excuse for personal attacks. However, if you come out and make criticism; you are subject to those ideas being challenged. That's the way it works. If you want to challenge an idea or make a critique on a discussion forum, it will be discussed. Almost assuredly not all people and maybe the majority will disagree with you. If you can not handle that then perhaps you should just send your critiques to fractal support.

On the other hand, as has been said; we can all do our part to be as kind as possible while critiquing and challenging critiques. A little humility goes along way in both directions.

So in summary,
If you make a challenging/criticizing post; people may disagree and comment on it. It happens in discussions. Thicken the skin and don't take it so personally.
If you set a humble tone, you will probably get a much warmer response.

Even though you have a right to disagree with others, you can do it in a respectful manner
Again, a little humility goes along way.

 

[FractalAudio]

[
I have no doubt that the 2 recordings that Cliff posted should have sounded identical because what you say above is surely true.
The only problem is that the recordings he actually posted do not sound *identical*. They are very close though.
So it's likely that something else besides the code or the way the parameters were set that is causing this slight difference.
But IMO, anyone who can't hear the difference in those recordings has no ears.

Of course there are going to be slight differences. The unit running 6.10 was recorded through the analog outs, the 9.03 through SPDIF (or the other way around, I don't remember). The 6.10 unit had a 5 foot cord going into, the 9.03 had a 10 ft cord.

Furthermore the point isn't that 6.10 and 9.03 are identical. They are not. There were changes made to lots of things along the way. The point is that you can make 9.03 sound nearly identical to 6.xx with a couple minor tweaks. The problem is those people implying there is some huge difference and that 9.03 is somehow "broken" (despite that fact that over 90% of those polled prefer 9.03). What is "identical" is the 9.00 vs. 9.03 base algorithm (hence the same major revision number). You can make 9.03 exactly identical to 9.00 by adjusting only the HF Resonance parameter.

And I will not be changing the defaults. In our tests (both measured and listening) 9.03 is much closer to the modeled amps than any other firmware. If it is too bright for YOU, then I'm sorry but I will not bow to the demands of a select few when the vast majority feel otherwise. No offense but I must take a scientific approach to amp modeling and that approach is duplicating, as close as possible, the sound of the modeled amps via both measurement and listening. 9.03 is consistent with that approach.