• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Wish Normalizer block

bsas

Inspired
I always wonder how hard it is to make a block that normalizes the volume output. I know such a thing doesn't "exist" in the real world of guitar effects, but in the digital world sounds like it could be possible.

So, with that people could make crazy high gain to no gain presets without worrying about a huge volume jump. Just put a normalizer as the last block and done...
 

iaresee

Moderator
Moderator
It's hard to know the future. That makes it hard the build a normalizer block. We have compressors for us mortals who haven't been able to perfect time travel signal analysis yet.
 

wknight2

Inspired
Some random thoughts on this:

- would it be possible to show a high-resolution version of the VU meter from the Utilities menu of the Axe, in Axe-Edit? Along with a numerical value?

- If someone determined the highest level they want the VU meter to go (lets pick a number and say 8), then could a "limiter" block be created that doesn't allow a signal with a value of 8 to go passed it? It would then be far more precise that the current lights on the Axe VU screen. Granted, that only gets you in the ballpark, as a clean will have more dynamics (and be louder) than a compressed distorted tone. However, there are technical geniuses at Fractal who might come up with a way to refine that even more.
For example - Could the Limiter block analyze the signal hitting it to adjust for dynamics?
Of course, that raises questions of what happens if someone wants to boost their volume for a solo, but perhaps the Limiter block disengages if a Drive or Filter block turns on? Or there are parameters that control when/how the Limiter block works?

Or, perhaps a tool is written that can send a test signal through each patch to level. There might be some formula out there that can calculate output signal to perceived loudness depending on what the waveform coming out looks like. The tool then could make tweaks to the Amp levels to get them close to a predetermined number put into the tool.

Or, perhaps another approach: maybe there is an Auto-Dial feature created for Axe-Edit, where you set the value to 8 for example, you then whack the strings as hard as you can for 10 seconds, and the Auto-Dial will automatically dial in the Amp level until the maximum value hitting it is an 8? Maybe the user could use it on all their cleans, then on all their gain-tones. Over time they would learn what number to use for clean and what to use on Gain so they are balanced in perceived volume - for example maybe a 6 for cleans and and an 8 for "gains". It would get us closer and save a lot of time compared to the current workflow.

Having the ability to use multiple amps and settings in various patches is a situation that didn't exist in the old days of pedal-amp-cab. Patch leveling seems to be one of the most common questions on the forum, especially among those that have lots of patches because they play in cover bands.
Resetting defaults with a firmware change means leveling all the patches again. Something to help in this regard I'm sure would be greatly appreciated by everyone.
 
Last edited:

bsas

Inspired
It's hard to know the future. That makes it hard the build a normalizer block. We have compressors for us mortals who haven't been able to perfect time travel signal analysis yet.
I agree and understand, but mathematically you can predict "the pick" or how much "gain" each previous block can "add". Therefore, the "normalizer" of course cannot be something like "normalize to -6dB", but, could be something like "don't allow the overall gain go beyond X".

Since the AxeFX is fully aware of everything in the chain (all blocks), it could easy "count" the "on" blocks and calculate the predict "gain" of the blocks compared to the raw signal.

Don't know, maybe I am just tripping in math here :D
 

bsas

Inspired
Some random thoughts on this:

- would it be possible to show a high-resolution version of the VU meter from the Utilities menu of the Axe, in Axe-Edit? Along with a numerical value?

- If someone determined the highest level they want the VU meter to go (lets pick a number and say 8), then could a "limiter" block be created that doesn't allow a signal with a value of 8 to go passed it? It would then be far more precise that the current lights on the Axe VU screen. Granted, that only gets you in the ballpark, as a clean will have more dynamics (and be louder) than a compressed distorted tone. However, there are technical geniuses at Fractal who might come up with a way to refine that even more.
For example - Could the Limiter block analyze the signal hitting it to adjust for dynamics?
Of course, that raises questions of what happens if someone wants to boost their volume for a solo, but perhaps the Limiter block disengages if a Drive or Filter block turns on? Or there are parameters that control when/how the Limiter block works?

Or, perhaps a tool is written that can send a test signal through each patch to level. There might be some formula out there that can calculate output signal to perceived loudness depending on what the waveform coming out looks like. The tool then could make tweaks to the Amp levels to get them close to a predetermined number put into the tool.

Or, perhaps another approach: maybe there is an Auto-Dial feature created for Axe-Edit, where you set the value to 8 for example, you then whack the strings as hard as you can for 10 seconds, and the Auto-Dial will automatically dial in the Amp level until the maximum value hitting it is an 8? Maybe the user could use it on all their cleans, then on all their gain-tones. Over time they would learn what number to use for clean and what to use on Gain so they are balanced in perceived volume - for example maybe a 6 for cleans and and an 8 for "gains". It would get us closer and save a lot of time compared to the current workflow.

Having the ability to use multiple amps and settings in various patches is a situation that didn't exist in the old days of pedal-amp-cab. Patch leveling seems to be one of the most common questions on the forum, especially among those that have lots of patches because they play in cover bands.
Resetting defaults with a firmware change means leveling all the patches again. Something to help in this regard I'm sure would be greatly appreciated by everyone.
Your ideas make perfect sense! :D Very cool.

For the issue that you pointed where the player wants a "volume boost" for solos, you can put a clean boost (drive block) after the "normalizer block" :D
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
You could make an output limiter block that uses an equal loudness algo, like the one in the horizontal VU meters, and specify the ceiling in Loudness Units.
 

Philip34

Experienced
Until we have something like what is being requested, either the "output comp" parameter in the amp block or a multi-band compressor (either post-amp block or post-cab block) are great for taming crazy volume levels
 

fractalz

Power User
I always wonder how hard it is to make a block that normalizes the volume output. I know such a thing doesn't "exist" in the real world of guitar effects, but in the digital world sounds like it could be possible.

So, with that people could make crazy high gain to no gain presets without worrying about a huge volume jump. Just put a normalizer as the last block and done...
I think what you are asking for is a "limiter" which is a compressor with a high or "infinite" ratio.

You have one of these in the Ax8 compressor block. Just put one at the end of the grid (probably just before your final reverb) and set it thusly:

Effect Type : Studio Comp
Threshold : -12dB
Ratio : INFINITE
Look Ahead : 2ms
Knee : Soft
Detect : Peak
Attack : 2ms
Release : Auto
Makeup : Off
Mix : 100%
Output : 0dB

This will give you a 0dB VU reading. If you still hear level differences in your scenes, you can drop the threshold and raise the output by the same amount, e.g., Threshold -20dB / Output 8dB.

I'm not sure why the threshold of -12dB matches 0dB VU, maybe someone can chime in with that explanation.

Anyway, this "works" as a limiter, but the compressor qua limiter will effect your sound, so you may want to eventually level balance your presets.

Given there is only 1 compressor in the AX8, you may not have one free to do this. In that case, try using Output Comp on the Amp block as your "regular" compressor and using the CMP block for your limiter.
 
Top Bottom