Normalize Volumes via Editor

[aleclee]

This thread got me thinking (uh oh!)

Dunno if it's possible but here goes: How about a feature in AxeEdit that would normalize volume across patches? Perhaps be able to select a group of patches and then normalize across them.

Given that AxeEdit shares infrastructure with AxePC, I was wondering if it might be possible to analyze a set of patches for relative volume and then adjust them (perhaps in the cab block?) so they're relatively close. I realize that psychoacoustics make it virtually impossible to account for perceptual issues but it would be a start.

 

[Beefcake]

My advice to you: do not hold your breath. Also, add a poll if you want this to be a "real" wish.

I realize that psychoacoustics make it virtually impossible to account for perceptual issues but it would be a start.

It's not just psychoacoustics, it is actually impossible and even if it weren't, it would hardly even be a start. And I might bet a lot that Cliff / Fractal wouldn't place a high priority on this feature.

 

[torchlord]

Maybe a good idea for a new product, down the road, if you could pull it off. I doubt there is any guitar equipment that does it at this point in time.

 

[steverosburg]

Easiest way I've found to normalize volumes is using the S/PDIF outputs, since they aren't dependent on the position of the output knobs. Generally, higher-gain sounds will sound louder than clean ones at the same level due to greater compression, so what I do is turn my pickups all the way, adjust the input on the Axe-Fx so I can just blink the red light while banging out an E chord, and then play the loudest/most dynamic parts of the song I'm going to use the patch for. For me, that part should be about -10dB, and then if there's a lead part I have about 6dB of boost headroom before clipping.

Anything but automatic, but is wonderfully consistent.

 

[mePt]

you mean something like this?

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=9945

but for guitar patches and not mixes obviously. so different approach with an even more simplified idea.

it's funny as i was thinking about this same exact thing--extrememly useful in the end. and no...absolutely doesn't have to be perfect...but it'd help a great deal.

 

[Beefcake]

you mean something like this?

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=9945

but for guitar patches and not mixes obviously. so different approach with an even more simplified idea.

That's not really similar to what was suggested at all.

Now, after recently using Melodyne DNA to reach inside finished songs to alter the pitch of single notes, change vocal melodies etc. I find myself more careful saying anything's impossible, but still.. this isn't going to happen.

Why? Because the Axe wouldn't know:
a) how hard you intend to play each sound
b) the output level or freq response of your PU's for each sound
c) the SPL you're aiming for
d) what kind of arrangement each sound should fit in
e) what, to you, is the "correct" relative level of any one sound to any other sound, or a number of other essential factors that are in play when setting patch levels.

I wouldn't wish any of Cliff's precious time or the Axe's resources used on this.

 

[mePt]

yeah, the wave rider thing is NOTHING like the idea for a patch related normalization...but it shows the idea of having an automatic way of finding and normalizing a track based on other surrounding parameters. --again...just saying that there's an automation that's possible. (and i don't even know if the thing works--nor will i for it's price point

but having a tool to do a patch set isn't that off...send an internally known, "default" audio signal (i.e. a noise or wave via some internal tone generator) thru said patches at an internally given volume and test the patches output parameter and then have the system tweak the overall volume level to match the "intended" out parameter...actually a number of programs already do such things for other gear (i've recently seen one on a room analyzer that adjusts its own volume it is looking for for it's tests thru a mic).

the idea would be for the user to get a set of patches (if i read the initial idea post properly) that had the same relative volume base, then s/he could adjust the power amp's single dial output to get a much better starting point for his/ her performance set alot faster than trying to set each individual patch.

oh...yeah...and it's never perfect...nothing ever is, right?

 

[Beefcake]

Hoping not to sound like a naysayer douchebag, I will reiterate:

but having a tool to do a patch set isn't that off...send an internally known, "default" audio signal (i.e. a noise or wave via some internal tone generator) thru said patches at an internally given volume and test the patches output parameter and then have the system tweak the overall volume level to match the "intended" out parameter...

This will not work.

Firstly, because different guitar sounds are typically played with a different touch, different pickup volume, different surrounding arrangement etc.

Secondly, because both the test tone's frequency content and amplitude would affect both the perceived relative volume and actual total energy of the output signal. Creating a test tone with suitable level and correctly balanced frequency content for even most users would be, shall we say, nontrivial.

actually a number of programs already do such things for other gear (i've recently seen one on a room analyzer that adjusts its own volume it is looking for for it's tests thru a mic).

Yes, but no system comparable to this one does, that I'm aware of.

the idea would be for the user to get a set of patches (if i read the initial idea post properly) that had the same relative volume base, then s/he could adjust the power amp's single dial output to get a much better starting point for his/ her performance set alot faster than trying to set each individual patch.

The point is, one would practically without fail have to tweak each patch anyway, so getting it "in the ballpark" would remove only the trivial task of turning one volume knob until the volume is "in the ballpark". In this regard, I really don't see lines of code serving as a substitute for your ears, your fingers on the strings playing through your guitar and your amplification system.

There is already a way to use an external controller to quickly alter and save the master patch volume in 1dB increments, and that is a very quick and easy way of setting patch volumes with two hands on the guitar.

oh...yeah...and it's never perfect...nothing ever is, right?

You got that right. But this wouldn't even be useful - in my humble opinion.

And the fact that none of the real theoretical heavy hitters around here have set me straight so far makes me suspect I've finally got something right, for once.