Noob Question - Single Coils and Optimal Amp Sims (photo heavy)

∞Fractals

∞Fractals

Fractal Fanatic
My experiences with the AXEFX so far have all been with Humbuckers (PRS 57/08's). I love how this sounds but have been itching to get a Fender-type single coil vibe going. I've been poking around looking at various guitars & makers to get there and finally made a decision. I wanted all the vintage "Strat" sound but in modern platform, so this is what I went with.

So, I just pulled the trigger on a new guitar (Brondel & Thornton Nowcaster) being shipped later this week. It's my first S-style guitar and it's loaded with custom-wound Ron Ellis single coil PUps (based upon his 50/60s I'm told).

What considerations should I take into account when thinking about amps and SC PUps? (I know, whatever sounds good, but I'm new to much of this and learning like a sponge. )
  1. Do people have different presets for different guitars?
  2. Will my inputs setting have to change?
  3. How do folks manage varying signal strengths into the AXEFX for different guitars?
  4. What amps will potentially be "great" combinations with SCs - or does it even matter?
  5. Is there a traditional rule of thumb or not (I'm guessing "not", but IDK).
Thanks in advance; this community rocks and I appreciate your experience and thoughts.


And if I may share this with you - here are some photos/details from the proud father :); it won't arrive until next weekend.:(

Brondel_Thornton_Nowcaster_06.jpg

The body is Nootka Cedar which was between 700 & 1200 years old when harvested. Unlike western red cedar this is not a soft wood as it is quite dense for a cedar but it still retains a light weight.

Brondel_Thornton_Nowcaster_08.jpg

The neck is treated (torrefied) figured rock maple, cooked at extremely high temperatures without oxygen, a process which removes all the sugars and ages the necks the equivalent of about 200 years. The necks are very lightweight, solid as rock and extremely stable. The dark brown color is natural as there is nothing on the necks except clear nitrocellulose.

Brondel_Thornton_Nowcaster_10.jpg


Brondel_Thornton_Nowcaster_04.jpg


SPECS:

- Body: old growth Nootka cedar, trees were between 700 & 1200 years old when harvested
- Neck: torrefied rock maple, 1 piece, with skunk stripe & compression truss rod
- 25 1/2” scale
- Dot inlays with glow in the dark side dots
- 12” fingerboard radius
- Fretwire: Jescar’s Evo .047 X .104
- Gotoh tuners
- Callaham six screw tremolo
- Ron Ellis custom wound pickups
- Controls: 5 way switch, volume, neck tone, bridge tone (middle pickup is not on a tone control)

Thanks in advance to the forum! ;)
 
Looks like a great Strat.. congrats!
  1. Do people have different presets for different guitars? (I do)
  2. Will my inputs setting have to change?(I don't change them)
  3. How do folks manage varying signal strengths into the AXEFX for different guitars? (I set the levels on each amp model for each preset to balance out, regardless of the guitar. So single coils may need slightly more level)
  4. What amps will potentially be "great" combinations with SCs - or does it even matter? (Gotta try them for yourself and see.. use your ears and not your eyes. I will say some IRs or IR combinations work better for me on certain guitars.. again, use your ears)
  5. Is there a traditional rule of thumb or not (I'm guessing "not", but IDK). (Not for me..)
 
We're in similar boats. My main two guitars are a vintage spec partscaster I obsessed over for ages with Fender CS 54 pickups, and a PRS CU22 with 57/08's. I definitely have different presets for each guitar. The tone would be too wildly different to successfully share the same amp block settings. As far as amp combinations go... there's no rule between the two. But with my strat I feel like I can get a good tone out of any amp style. I mostly play heavy music, and I tend to gravitate to blending a Diezel VH4 ch3, with a sparkly/broken up Fender twin/tweed. I get low end thickness from the Diezel, and clarity/definition from the Fender. I hope this info helps
 
Hi there.
I find I don't need to change the inputs, but if I use a Gibson, I tend to turn up the treble/presence more a good bit more, as opposed to when using a Jem.
If you've got single coils, an excellent way to start [or Strat!] would be to choose a nice cabinet and go through the Fender models and see which ones you like, great fun, a real tour-de-force and almost like an interactive history lesson! I also like the Div13 CJ 11 with single coils as well.
 
Different presets for different guitars, yes! But you can always get cool sounds mismatching them afterwards. Input trim is the best way to lower/increase input per preset. If you set the input level on IO for your hottest guitar (PRS), then you'd might like to increase input trim a bit on the preset for the Strat, as it'll have less output. Anyhow, congrats on that gorgeous strat man!
 
First off..... that is an absolutely beautiful guitar!

I play in a classic rock band and need to switch off between two guitars, usually Strat and a Les Paul. I was constantly twiddling with my settings to get the sound I wanted. What would work for one guitar didn't suit me for the other. I was able to use X/Y a Filter Block block to get close to what I was looking for.

Here is what it's doing. I have my Amp block set for a fairly neutral sound. If I am using a guitar with Humbuckers and want it a bit bright, I press the 'X' setting. This is a Highshelf Filter with Frequency at 1000 Hz, Q at .707 and the Gain set to 6 dB. This functions like a 'Treble Boost'. If I am playing a guitar with Single Coil Pickups I use the 'Y' setting. This is a Lowshelf Filter. Same parameters as above but an opposite response. This tames the high end above 1000 Hz. In addition, since single coil pickups has less output, I set the level to 6 dB' This compensates for the difference in pickups. What do you think? Any suggestions?

Cheers, Mike
 
I use a PRS CU22 with BK Mules, a PRS CE with P90s, a Fender Select Strat, a Suhr Modern, a Tele with Broadcasters and a 335. I use the same pre-sets for all my guitars. If you had a "real" amp you'd do that. You'd pick what guitar for what song, and its own character would come through. Same with the AFX.

Now, it does follow that my low gain/clean presets sound better with the Tele/Strat, then as the gain goes up the P90 and Mule loaded PRSs sound best, then as the gain gets high the Suhr shines, but I will noodle with any guitar though all my presets.

AS for input settings, I set to tickle the red with my hottest guitar (the Suhr), and just leave it there.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
I use a PRS CU22 with BK Mules, a PRS CE with P90s, a Fender Select Strat, a Suhr Modern, a Tele with Broadcasters and a 335. I use the same pre-sets for all my guitars. If you had a "real" amp you'd do that. You'd pick what guitar for what song, and its own character would come through. Same with the AFX.

Now, it does follow that my low gain/clean presets sound better with the Tele/Strat, then as the gain goes up the P90 and Mule loaded PRSs sound best, then as the gain gets high the Suhr shines, but I will noodle with any guitar though all my presets.

AS for input settings, I set to tickle the red with my hottest guitar (the Suhr), and just leave it there.
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same, i'm not a believer it different setups for different guitars...i want them to sound different, that's why i own them.
 
jlynnb1 said:
same, i'm not a believer it different setups for different guitars...i want them to sound different, that's why i own them.
Click to expand...

The idea of different presets for different guitars (at least for me) is to do exactly that.. to get the preset dialed in to work best for each guitar. I use a template with all the FX blocks, etc. that stays very consistent and then adjust the amp/IR settings slightly for each guitar. Les Pauls/humbuckers tend to get a little less drive settings than single coils to hit the sweet spot where they clean up from the volume knob a little (my approach with any guitar/amp setup I've ever used). I also tend to use a little more or less low end (hi pass in the cab block) to keep each guitar from getting muddy, and some IR or IR pairings tend to work a little better for one guitar vs. another. I'm a firm believer in letting each guitar's voice through though.. I don't want my Strat to sound like my Les Paul, etc.

Just adding this reply to offer a little clarification on my initial post above for the OP..
 
Its all about how you want to work. I use the same presets because I WANT my HB loaded guitars to push the amp more than my SCs. I too use the same template, but I have 5 different presets to represent 5 different gain levels - then another 5 that are similar but different flavours.

So I have a clean, a pushed, a crunch, a higher gain rhythm and a lead tone on each set of 5 (say a fender and a Dr Z clean - one warm one sparkly, a Marshal and a Friedman crunch - one fat one more scooped etc). My Tele tends to live on presets 1 and 2, as does my strat - and I switch between flavour depending what I need. My P90/Mules loaded PRSs do get used on 2 and 4, but mainly 3 and 5. The Suhr is 4 and 5 mainly though it does get used on 2 sometimes. My 355 is normally 1 and 3.
 
Thank you everyone for your experiences and how you approach the magic black box with various instruments.

The guitar shows up late today so I'll get to experiment and explore a little this weekend (and forward :)). Again, such a great community here.
 
Wow- that guitar is amazing and I wanted to report what you all likely know already, but the tone, character of that Nowcaster comes in perfectly through the AXEFX; between the guitar resonance and the woods, to the Ron Ellis custom wound pick-ups and Scalar pure nickel strings, I just cannot believe how clear the tone is and the string separation is like no other guitar I've played. Great SRV, Jimi and EJ tones ... this will keep me busy for a while :D. The AXEFX XL+ just shines with different guitars!

Brondel_Thornton_Nowcaster_01.jpg


I've been using the Mesa Lonestar and some of the EJ patches (Vibro Verbs), the Bogner Classic Blue. Will try some of the boutiques and others, but I'm so happy with this set up. Thanks you Cliff Chase and Team FAS! You make this experience phenomenal.

And a shout out to Laurent Brondel and Chuck Thornton - you make one hell of a great "Nowcaster" ... everything I wanted in a modern guitar with amazing "vintage" tone!

Also, lastly my gratitude to Cliff Cullteri @ DestroyAllGuitars for helping me find Laurent and Chuck!
 
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  1. Do people have different presets for different guitars? Pretty Much: Types of guitars, anyway: Presets for humbuckers, presets for Strat, Presets for Tele, presets for P90s: They can be just minor EQ and input trim adjustments to a basic preset, though. Easier than tweaking each time a different guitar is used.
  2. Will my inputs setting have to change? Usually: Input Trim or amp input level
  3. How do folks manage varying signal strengths into the AXEFX for different guitars? Input Trim on the amp model: but I have all vintage to medium output pickups, so don't need to adjust the hardware input.
  4. What amps will potentially be "great" combinations with SCs - or does it even matter? I suspect great tones of some sort can be found with SCs and any of the models. Personally, with that guitar I'd get jiggy with the F58 Tweed. I can go all night just using that model. Eventually spend some time with one of the Dumble models: which IME takes some doing to get dialed in and is not forgiving of sloppy technique, but wow!
  5. Is there a traditional rule of thumb or not (I'm guessing "not", but IDK). I'll buck traditional popular opinion and suggest: Don't be afraid of the advanced parameters: Once the tone is over 90% there with the usual knobs, switches and cabinet swaps, just a small adjustment of the cabinet resonance, adjustment to the bias or saturation can really make it gel with the particular guitar. If you screw it up, NBD; don't save: it's software: its not like you're going to blow a transformer.
  6. Gorgeous guitar BTW. I'll bet that old growth cedar sounds great.
 
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So, I've had this guitar for a few weeks (awesome guitar and tone BTW), and last night was an epic example of "my question", accidently answered (although, frankly I was already trending in this direction and building presets just for the Strat/SC PUps), but truly underscores what many here said and further convinced me that different amps/presets work better than others for different guitars.

I've decided that for me, it makes sense to have different presets for the Strat/Single Coils (Ron Ellis customs) vs. the PRS P24/Humbuckers (57/08s).

The Happy Accident: Was changing patches with the Nowcaster/SC guitar ... and landed on preset #44(?) Brit JVM OD1. Glorious!
But shocking - because my experience with the PRS was that this preset was simply best if just avoided ... purely a mess of uncontrollable gain, noise, feedback, distortion etc. with the humbuckers; but with a Strat .. man - just beautiful tonez!

Now, if I think about this more, I of course have more questions ... which have to do with gain staging.

Is is quite likely high gain OD channels/amps are fine with higher output PUps ... it just needs to be set up with more attention to gain staging?

Or do folks not bother and just keep looking for a more fitting amp/preset. I ask, because if it's the former, then lot's of amps can be appropriate if I just understand how better to construct the signal gain? If that is true, where the heck do I start?

(Context: I don't have decades or even years of using tube amps to inform me on how to set up amps - so this community a big part of learning how to optimize the AXE FX to suit.)
 
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jlynnb1 said:
same, i'm not a believer it different setups for different guitars...i want them to sound different, that's why i own them.
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I agree with that sentiment, but as a practicality I find that you need to tweak the gain structure for different output levels of different pickups. I don't see a problem with that concept, since if you had an actual amp you'd probably twiddle a few knobs on it if you switched between an SC and HB guitar anyways. In other words, I don't see anything wrong with adjusting the modeler to optimal settings for each particular guitar.
 
∞Fractals said:
So, I've had this guitar for a few weeks (awesome guitar and tone BTW), and last night was an epic example of "my question", accidently answered (although, frankly I was already trending in this direction and building presets just for the Strat/SC PUps), but truly underscores what many here said and further convinced me that different amps/presets work better than others for different guitars.

I've decided that for me, it makes sense to have different presets for the Strat/Single Coils (Ron Ellis customs) vs. the PRS P24/Humbuckers (57/08s).

The Happy Accident: Was changing patches with the Nowcaster/SC guitar ... and landed on preset #44(?) Brit JVM OD1. Glorious!
But shocking - because my experience with the PRS was that this preset was simply best if just avoided ... purely a mess of uncontrollable gain, noise, feedback, distortion etc. with the humbuckers; but with a Strat .. man - just beautiful tonez!

Now, if I think about this more, I of course have more questions ... which have to do with gain staging.

Is is quite likely high gain OD channels/amps are fine with higher output PUps ... it just needs to be set up with more attention to gain staging?

Or do folks not bother and just keep looking for a more fitting amp/preset. I ask, because if it's the former, then lot's of amps can be appropriate if I just understand how better to construct the signal gain? If that is true, where the heck do I start?

(Context: I don't have decades or even years of using tube amps to inform me on how to set up amps - so this community a big part of learning how to optimize the AXE FX to suit.)
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You are over thinking it.

Just learn how to adjust the gain controls: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/understanding-all-the-different-gain-controls.95018/

The character of the IR's and then the character of the amplifier have the biggest effect on tone.

If you don't have much experience with real amps, then Google up what some of your fav guitar players use and pick those speakers and amps.
 
What I'm probably going to do is set up some sort of low pass filter block with an external controller on an expression pedal that increases the output level as it increases the amount of filtering done. This on the assumption that SC pickups are going to need a bit of a boost (compared to HB's) to get the right amount of distortion happening, and at the same time are going to tend to be a more treble heavy.
 
∞Fractals said:
  • See below
Click to expand...
  • Do people have different presets for different guitars? Sometimes. As Jason mentioned above, playing different guitars into the same presets accentuates the difference in sounds. If that works for you, it's a cool thing. I have guitars that it doesn't do well with, presets built for humbuckers making single coils sound thin and harsh and vice versa. Let your ears lead you.
  • Will my inputs setting have to change? I don't change it. I probably should, but have always been able to compensate in the preset blocks. I should try it, just lazy!
  • How do folks manage varying signal strengths into the AXEFX for different guitars? A combination of the two answers above.
  • What amps will potentially be "great" combinations with SCs - or does it even matter? Great sound is whatever you think it is. Pretty much any amp you can think of have players who use humbuckers and others who use single coils. I don't think there are "single coil only" amps, but that's my person opinion.
  • Is there a traditional rule of thumb or not (I'm guessing "not", but IDK). Assuming you mean about combinations of guitars/pickups and amp types, no. The best thing to do is completely forget the Axe Fx is a modeler and think of it as a couple of hundred amps. When you walk into a music store, the amps aren't grouped by Les Paul and Strat types. It's the same way here. I was noodling with something last week and inadvertently put the Mesa II C++ into stereo 1x6 oval speakers! It sounded pretty darned cool too! You couldn't get by with that in the real world, but you can here. That's the type of differences you can experiment with that are useful musically. Forget about it otherwise... think amps and cabinets and you'll be golden.
Most of all, just have fun and make music!
 
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