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Non-virtual cab setup

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Discussion' started by Joero6, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Joero6

    Joero6
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    Question for those running a power amp to traditional guitar cabs. Have you found any tricks or tips for getting the amp sounds closer to what they should sound like or sounding better when not using the cab blocks. I run my Axe 2 XL+ into 2 4X12 cabs with 85 watt celestions wired to 4 ohms. I find a lot of amps sounding very close to each other...having me use only a handful of what I have. I know this is not the case so much when using cab blocks and flat speakers...but this is not the way I want to go at this time. So just curious if anybody else running real cabs has this issue, and what do you to solve it. Thanks Joe
     
  2. dpeterson

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    Disable power amp modeling (sag to 0)? You are experiencing why people like to use FRFR cabs IMHO. Most amps sound similar through the same cabinet, there are a few videos demonstrating the problem.
     
  3. lqdsnddist

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    The coloration of your speakers is affecting the tone more than the differences between many amp models.

    If you want more tonal variety you either need a) get additional speaker cabs and a switched to change between them on the fly, or b) put some slightly flatter speakers into your cabinets like an EV, which won't have as much of a distinct coloration.

    Big part of the tone of a lot of amp models is the cabinet paired up with it. A Marshall model through a 4x12 GB IR is going to sound very different than a Fender model through a 1x12 IR, BUT, if your running both the Marshall AND the Fender model through a real 4x12 your missing what that 1x12 contributes.

    As already said, its why many folks enjoy FRFR, so you can have all those different cab tones
     
  4. unix-guy

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    If the OP is using a tube power amp that makes sense.

    Also, it's easier to turn global power amp modeling off.

    And if that is the case, it definitely contributes even more to amps sounding similar because they are all getting the same color from the power amp instead of the amp model's power amp sim.
     
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  5. Joero6

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    All good responses and appreciated. Yes, the power amp modeling is off. I was just wondering if anybody had found any work arounds other than switching speaker cabs to FRFR. I bought a Matrix GT1000FX power amp when I got the Axe, but liked my Rocktron Velocity 300 (Older Version) better with the real cabs. Most likely duue to the time spent using it...it was what I was used to. That being said, has anybody had any hands on experience with the Mission Engineering Speakers? I like the look of the KM-212P. Any other suggestions to pair with the GT1000? Want at least 2X12. Thanks Joe
     
  6. unix-guy

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    If you are not using a tube power amp you need to turn power amp modeling ON!

    Otherwise you have NO power amp color or distortion.
     
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  7. Joero6

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    I was not aware of that. When I first got the unit I tried both but did not hear a difference. COuld have been the preset I picked though. Joe
     
  8. Rex

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    When you use a real guitar cab, it’s like wearing colored glasses. You’re viewing the amp through the tint of the lens (your cab). If you try to correct the color with another lens, you just wind up with a weird color. You can’t make a 4x12 Marshall cab sound like a 2x12 Fender open-back.
     
  9. Joero6

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    Yeah, I understand that. I just knew that there are a lot of people who run the setup like I do with a power amp and real cabs with great sounding results. I guess they just don't use as many different amps, or tweak the crap out of them? Joe
     
  10. lqdsnddist

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    I’d say that anyone who uses a power amp and cab does so because they love the sound of that amp and cab, and are okay having only that cab sound.

    Likewise, I think most anyone that wants lots of different cab tones is using FRFR for that very reason.

    If you love the sound of a LP, and don’t want any other tones, you might own nothing but LP’s, but if you also want tele sounds etc, then your going to need some different guitars, know what I mean?
     
  11. Paperjace

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    I use real cabs live with a Matrix GT1000FX power amp. First and foremost, TURN POWER AMP MODELING ON when using the Matrix.

    Like other have said, by using a live cab, you're kind of locked into one tone. The cab is one of the biggest factors in tone-shaping. If you're playing in a Top 40 cover band, for example, and you need a wide variety of tones, going direct to FOH or using a FRFR speaker is your best bet.

    In my opinion, though, if you have a guitar with a HSH configuration, you can cover a LOT of ground.
     
  12. Paperjace

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    @Joero6 What kind of music are you trying to play?
     
  13. will romero

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    this video is for the AX8 but is still relevant with the 2(XL)(+)

     
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  14. smarshallll

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    I know I'm going to get berated for this, but if it helps you, then I'll consider it a plus...I have personally great results keeping cab sims on, running out from my AxeFx to a EQ that I've tweaked to my liking, and then to a poweramp/cab- for stage volume, and then sending direct to FOH. My jmp100 and 2x12 cab react pretty consistently across my range of tones, and I'm essentially just approximating a FRFR, but I dig it.
     
  15. mrekrek

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    No berating here.

    I also run Cabs with a Matrix and a pair of 2x12 Avatars. Cab Ir’s are just another EQ. As a matter of fact with the Axe, every block is just another EQ.

    My best sound has always been with Cab blocks and while the variety of Amp flavors isn’t quite the same as FRFR, the variety is there. Marshall’s sound like Marshall’s etc...

    Just like FRFR, not all Amps work with all Cabs.

    FYI...I have a little post-Cab EQ to the Avatars but it’s just a PEQ.
     
  16. Billbill

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    Put that Matrix back in your rig! Turn amp and cab sims on! See how them sims treat your "real" cab. You may be surprised.
     
  17. Joero6

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    Thanks for all the responses. I am going to give the matrix another shot with the power amp modeling on as well as trying the cab models just to see. I don't remember enjoying it before, but i was still brand new to the Axe at that time and was having trouble dialing my tones. If this does not work to my liking, I am thinking about getting a FRFR cab and see if I like it better. Also toying of the idea of running one side the way I have it, and one side to the FRFR at the same time to be able to blend the two. Anybody do this? Thanks Joe
     
  18. Paperjace

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    Sounds like a cool idea. I've never done it but it's worth trying.

    I will say that using live cabs is different than an FRFR cab. Not to make things even more complicated, but a guitar cabinet can sound different depending on where you're standing in the room. That's why there are sooo many different IRs out there. Doing a hybrid setup like this and relying on both the live cab and IRs to define your tone can be tricky when playing different venues. If you want a consistent tone night after night, playing through an FRFR/direct-to-FOH with a cab IR is the way to go. If you like the feeling of an amp blasting behind you, a live cab is the way to go. (I'm sure a bunch of folks will chime in saying you can achieve this "amp in the room" sound with an FRFR speaker, but this has been my experience.) I do both live cab and direct-to-FOH when I play shows, but I do not mic up the cabinet. I just use it to fill up the stage sound and to feel an amp blasting behind me. 90% of what the audience hears is the FOH sound.
     
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  19. woodbutcher65

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    It'd be nice if the unit allowed you to pick the cabinet type you're really using (real world cabinet) and also be able to stack a pre-compensated IR on top of that so you could simulate/emulate a cabinet you're not using, with the one you ARE using. But I don't think that's going to happen.

    Having run my AFII into an FRFR system, I have learned for myself how, yes, it is true, that cabinet selection really does affect your overall tone more than any other single factor.

    My cabinets of choice are custom designed 1x12s with EVM-12Ls in them. Great sounding cabinets, but they sound NOTHING like a vintage Marshall 4x12 bottom loaded with genuine Greenbacks. And there's nothing I can currently do to change that other than to go get different cabinets....or plug into an FRFR system and pick the 4x12 bottom with Greenbacks IRs.
     
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  20. Billbill

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    After rereading some forum posts this one got me wondering. What do you mean by a "non virtual cab setup"? Are you referring to using your real cabs vs FRFR options? The only virtual cabs are what you would model in a DAW. Should also note that FRFR are cabs too. Sure they may represent certain, sometimes unusable, frequencies clearer than a trad cab, but they're still cabs! They resonate too and that's what you hear. Don't matter how many drivers/tweeters you put in there it's still a real cab. Work with what you got put in the time and you have a great tone no matter what the setup is. Assuming you're plugging all that shit into a fractal audio systems AxeFx!!;)
     

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