• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Non Master Volume Amps 10 vs. 9

imrecs

Inspired
I only use non master volume amps in the Axe FX (Plexi 100, Deluxe Verb, Deluxe Tweed and AC30 mainly). I read that 10 on the master volume control is actually the equivalent to "11" on the real amps, and a setting of 9 is more accurate to the real thing. For those of you using non master volume amps, do you find it better to leave the master wide open on 10, or pull it back to 9. If I pull it back to 9 and increase the input drive by 1, is that basically doing this same thing? Also, I read that changing the preamp tube type to "long plate" is suggested for non-master volume amps. What's the reasoning behind this? I am preferring the long plate sound, it seems a bit more open and clear, and I'm wondering if others are finding the same thing.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Sounds like a misunderstanding.

Max on the Fractal master is equivalent to the real non-master amp.

(For other controls, some amps controls are labeled 1-11 vs 0-10 on the Fractal. For example Fender tone controls. So this would be a difference in the Fractal number setting vs. real amp "number" setting.)
 

sprint

Power User
My possibly skewed understanding is that non-master-amps have master default value set to 10 just to identify them as non-master volume amps - the master volume control on these amps do basically the same thing as the level control (has no impact on power amp dynamics - just increases volume)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
My possibly skewed understanding is that non-master-amps have master default value set to 10 just to identify them as non-master volume amps - the master volume control on these amps do basically the same thing as the level control (has no impact on power amp dynamics - just increases volume)
Ummm a non-master volume amp.... wait for it... has no master volume control :)
 

imrecs

Inspired
what's up with the long plate preamp tube setting for non master volume amps? why is that preferred?
 

sprint

Power User
Ummm a non-master volume amp.... wait for it... has no master volume control :)
Ya - well - I'm hip to that part of it - my point was: in the Axefx, there's still a knob called "master volume" on these non-master volume amp mdels right? - so,... wait for it ... what does that Axefx model knob do in the context of these non-master volume amps?
My (now confirmed to be skewed) understanding was that it only acted as a volume level (like the level knob).

Since I got a "no no no no" with no further explanation, I know there is more to it and that it's probably explained somewhere here - so I'll now get off my lazy ass and go find the correct answer. -:) -:)
 
Last edited:

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Ya - well - I'm hip to that part of it - my point was: there's still a knob called "master volume" on these non-master volume amps right? - so,... wait for it ... what does that knob do in the context of these non-master volume amps?
My (now confirmed to be skewed) understanding was that it only acted as a volume level (like the level knob).

Since I got a "no no no no" with no further explanation, I know there is more to it and that it's probably explained somewhere here - so I'll now get off my lazy ass and go find the correct answer. -:) -:)
It depends on the amp design as to what the controls do. There is no one answer as to what a control labeled "Master Volume" on a guitar amp is doing in regards to the amp circuit and the amp sound.

If you want to learn about a particular model in the Fractal, study the real amp and what it's controls do.

Then see if you can figure out which controls on the Fractal correspond to the same controls on the real amp.
 

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
In the AFX a non-master volume amp sim with it's Master Volume at '10' replicates the circuitry/operation of the real amp (the full, unattenuated signal going to the input of the PA) .

I suppose you could consider a NMV amp sim in the AFX to be 'modded with a master volume control' and you have options where to place the 'mod' (pre/post PI, etc.).
 

sprint

Power User
It depends on the amp design as to what the controls do. There is no one answer as to what a control labeled "Master Volume" on a guitar amp is doing in regards to the amp circuit and the amp sound.

If you want to learn about a particular model in the Fractal, study the real amp and what it's controls do.

Then see if you can figure out which controls on the Fractal correspond to the same controls on the real amp.
Thanks - to clarify my last post, I meant: In the Axefx, there is still a knob called "master volume" on these non-master amp models, so what does that knob do in the Axefx ...

But, agreed - understanding the real amp will likely help with understanding its implementation in the Axefx.
 

sprint

Power User
Controls the level/drive of the preamp signal going into the power amp, the same as a real amp with a MV.
Thanks - Got it now - the default mv @ 10 for non-mv amp models emulates the amp wide open like the real world one with no mv knob.

Somewhere along the line I initially got the the wrong idea about this.
 

RDH

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks - to clarify my last post, I meant: In the Axefx, there is still a knob called "master volume" on these non-master amp models, so what does that knob do in the Axefx ...

But, agreed - understanding the real amp will likely help with understanding its implementation in the Axefx.
The Master volume control is in the amp block for all models , Non Master volume amps are set to 10 (same as the actual amp modeled, 10=10 not 9=10 , was the latter in beginning firmwares ,but changed ) If you want authentic result ignore the master volume and operate level with level control ! Lowering Master Volume reduces how hard the power amp is hit (Clipped), much of the distortion comes from the Power amp ,not preamp ) I've seen plexi's modded with a master volume to get more distortion at lower volumes , but it's pre amp distortion and quite different! If doing this yields good results for you , by all means do what sounds good to you ! No rules to leave Master dimed , the beauty of the AxFx is tweakability ! You can mod your amps without having to be a tech or pay someone !!:)
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
In the AFX a non-master volume amp sim with it's Master Volume at '10' replicates the circuitry/operation of the real amp (the full, unattenuated signal going to the input of the PA) .

I suppose you could consider a NMV amp sim in the AFX to be 'modded with a master volume control' and you have options where to place the 'mod' (pre/post PI, etc.).
Correct. All Axe-Fx models have been "modded" to include a Master Volume. Setting the MV to 10 effectively removes it from the circuit.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Correct. All Axe-Fx models have been "modded" to include a Master Volume. Setting the MV to 10 effectively removes it from the circuit.
Thanks for the clarification.

I know from my experience not all master volume mods are this way. I had one re-done for this very reason.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Master volume control is in the amp block for all models , Non Master volume amps are set to 10 (same as the actual amp modeled, 10=10 not 9=10 , was the latter in beginning firmwares ,but changed ) If you want authentic result ignore the master volume and operate level with level control ! Lowering Master Volume reduces how hard the power amp is hit (Clipped), much of the distortion comes from the Power amp ,not preamp ) I've seen plexi's modded with a master volume to get more distortion at lower volumes , but it's pre amp distortion and quite different! If doing this yields good results for you , by all means do what sounds good to you ! No rules to leave Master dimed , the beauty of the AxFx is tweakability ! You can mod your amps without having to be a tech or pay someone !!:)
Yes. Plexis are all about power amp distortion and just don't sound right with a master volume. A post-PI MV is better but still not the same thing because it lowers the forward gain of the power amp and hence changes the gain reduction. It sounds pretty cool though. Try changing the MV Location to Post-PI and then reduce MV.
 
Top Bottom